Karzai legalises marital rape in Afghanistan

[DMB]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6025362.ece

...International reaction has been slowed by secrecy surrounding the law, which was passed without a formal debate and signed off by President Karzai this week, but is yet to be made law.

...Under the same constitution, each religious group is to have its own family law. Opponents said that it contravenes the founding charter in many ways — not least Article 22, which enshrines equality of the sexes before the law.

...Article 133 reintroduces the Taleban restrictions on women’s movements outside their homes, stating: “A wife cannot leave the house without the permission of the husband” unless in a medical or other emergency.

Article 27 endorses child marriage with girls legally able to marry once they begin to menstruate.

Sayed Hossain Alemi Balkhi, a Shia lawmaker involved in drafting the law, defended the legislation, saying that it gives more rights to women than even Britain or the US does.

[tjakey]

Tell me again why we are sending billion of dollars and tens of thousands of troops to defend these people from themselves?

[Anne]

For the girls?

[tjakey]

It seems to me we are defending the people who are, in fact, beating the girls.

[premjan]

I think the Afghan government believes in women's education etc. so it is not they who are beating the girls, they are just trying to increase their popular support. But this is not the way to do it.

[darjeeling]

For the girls?

It doesn't seem to be doing the girls much good.

I think the Afghan government believes in women's education etc. so it is not they who are beating the girls, they are just trying to increase their popular support. But this is not the way to do it.

What is the way to do it?

[DMB]

It's causing controversy at the Nato summit

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6030390.ece

But Nato’s Secretary-General, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, suggested that European countries may be deterred from contributing more in Afghanistan by the furore over Mr Karzai’s actions.

Mr de Hoop Scheffer told the BBC: "How can I defend this, and how can the British defend this, when our boys and girls are dying there in defence of universal values, and here is a law that fundamentally violates human rights?"

...The law has provoked international reaction from dismay to outrage, almost directly proportionate to each country’s willingness to send more troops.

The greatest furore has been in Canada, where the government and opposition united in condemning the law, saying it raised questions about the country’s continuing mission in Afghanistan.

[DMB]

The trouble is that the Islamic countries do not even accept the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

[premjan]

I think the Afghan government believes in women's education etc. so it is not they who are beating the girls, they are just trying to increase their popular support. But this is not the way to do it.What is the way to do it?They need to emphasize reconciliation of sharia with modern values. Most Afghans, Pakistanis etc. are not in love with the notion of barbaric middle ages punishments. People in Pakistan were quite upset to see the flogging of the girl in Swat. If they bring out a cleric who espouses moderate punishments they could possibly rally the various sects on their side.

[darjeeling]

They need to emphasize reconciliation of sharia with modern values.

That's impossible.

[HinduWoman]

I think the Afghan government believes in women's education etc. so it is not they who are beating the girls, they are just trying to increase their popular support. But this is not the way to do it.What is the way to do it?They need to emphasize reconciliation of sharia with modern values. Most Afghans, Pakistanis etc. are not in love with the notion of barbaric middle ages punishments. People in Pakistan were quite upset to see the flogging of the girl in Swat. If they bring out a cleric who espouses moderate punishments they could possibly rally the various sects on their side.

You are forgetting innovation is a sin.

Pakistanis may be upset at seeing the flogging but they cannot deny that the law is enshrined in the Koran handed down by Allah himself.
Can they be good muslims if they criticise it?

[DMB]

Premjan, I suggest some time going through the UDHR (http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html) clause by clause and you will see how much is incompatible with the various forms of sharia. And yet this is the basic international HR document.

[premjan]

You are forgetting innovation is a sin.

Pakistanis may be upset at seeing the flogging but they cannot deny that the law is enshrined in the Koran handed down by Allah himself.
Can they be good muslims if they criticise it?
Maybe it is just easier for them to stop being Muslims altogether.

[purple_kathryn]

Could someone explain how it gives more rights to women than even Britain or the US?

[Cheetah]

Could someone explain how it gives more rights to women than even Britain or the US?

How what does?

[DMB]

See this quote in the OP:

Sayed Hossain Alemi Balkhi, a Shia lawmaker involved in drafting the law, defended the legislation, saying that it gives more rights to women than even Britain or the US does.

[Cheetah]

See this quote in the OP:

Sayed Hossain Alemi Balkhi, a Shia lawmaker involved in drafting the law, defended the legislation, saying that it gives more rights to women than even Britain or the US does.

Ah! Well, that's just the usual apologetics and doublethink.

[purple_kathryn]

Is it perhaps "see we've enshrined in law what women can do! None of you have done that"?

[Christina]

I think there may be a strong concept of "freedom from" rather than "freedom to" at work in their mindset. In their logic women are free from unwanted attention from strange men and are secure, even if it means denying their human rights to do that. It's just sick.

[rlogan]

It seems to me we are defending the people who are, in fact, beating the girls.

It's invincible blind patriotism. No matter how bad it is, the presumption is that it is a vast improvement.

One of the frustrating things though is the incapablility of grasping that every billion we spend there is a billion that can actually accomplish something in our own country. It furthermore will not create deadly enemies for generations.

Nobody straps a bomb to themselves because we build another hospital or housing, or bridges and roads and schools right here at home. But when we send our army abroad to occupy foreign lands it sure does.

[HinduWoman]

Could someone explain how it gives more rights to women than even Britain or the US?

Muslims tell me that in Shariah women are protected and respected while in Western countries women have lost their honour and family feelings. :dunno:

That is the kind of thing Karzai is speaking about I presume.

[premjan]

Well, I think this snuck in mainly because of a need to appease a key minority. But hopefully on reexamining this they will put in secular safeguards.

[DMB]

Western pressure may be having an effect.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/04/afghanistan.womens.rights/index.html