The (real) English language

[Zygote]

I'm buffing up a fresh crop of kids to take across the pond. The topic of the next meeting we have will be language. This is where I try to prepare them so as to avoid giving or taking unintentional offense. They are 11-13 years old.

I'm looking for words with dual meanings that might trip them up or get them a raised eyebrow in the UK.

Also, I'm wondering about hand signals. I'm old enough to be out of touch even with American ones other that the palm-outward V (friendly) and the palm-inward raised middle finger (hostile). Any gestures and their implications, from either culture, would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for the translations.

[His Noodly Appendage]

Fanny. It means vagina.

Also, not language, but eye contact is something to be aware of. It's a much stronger signal than in the US, and is used like punctuation.

If you maintain eye contact the entire time you're talking to someone, it comes across as pushy, shouting, in your face, etc. Rather like getting into someone's personal space, grabbing their hand and talking in bold small caps. The instinctive reaction is to shy back and wonder what the hell your problem is.

Flash for a second to establish communication, then break - aim for the nose or forehead or so. Lock back on for a second to underline, prompt, thank, end the conversation, etc. It can also be used to signal a waitress from across the room.

It's not a deference thing, as in Japan - it's more like dropping your highbeams in the face of oncoming traffic. People making limited eye contact are being courteous, not cold or evasive.

[David B]

Over here the raised index and middle finger in the form of a V palm inwards has the same sort of meaning as the raised middle finger over there. Palm out it means victory.

In Germany, I understand that making the thumb and index finger in the shape of an O is a terrible insult, where in Britain, where it is the SCUBA divers signal for 'I'm OK', it is innocuous.

I'd think most Brits now understand the US meaning of 'fag' as well as the Brit one, a cigarette.

That's a start.

David

[Oolon Colluphid]

People in Britain love to queue. Being basically deferential, we tend to queue with our backs towards the bus stop (etc), so always join a queue at what appears to be the front.

Taxi drivers are often lonely, so encourage them to tell you about their life and opinions. They also expect you to haggle.

When entering a railway compartment, be sure to shake hands with all the other occupants.

[Zygote]

Eye contact - here it's expected and avoidance can indicate indifference.

We'll leave our "fanny packs" at home. I can't imagine what images that expression brings up over there.

Oolon, the end of the queue will still be be part farthest away from the bus stop sign, though, right? I really, really don't want to be accused of queue jumping.

I'll make a note to mention about the inward facing V sign - these kids are the most considerate batch I've had yet and they will want to avoid offense.

Any thoughts on the raised index and pinkie with the middle two fingers held down by the thumb? Is it purely a California phenomenon? It seems to be used as an expression of solidarity here, but I really haven't a clue about this.

[His Noodly Appendage]

ZYgote... um... Oolon is an evil bastard.

[His Noodly Appendage]

The gesture you mention is, I believe 'devil horns', originally from rock/metal culture. It ought to translate fine.

[JamesBannon]

Just don't be "loud!" Over here, that's seen as being "pushy" and "aggressive". Same with being overly familiar. Expect people to be fairly reserved & not "gushy". We tend to have a fairly large personal space too.

Oh, and HNA is quite right: Oolon is an evil bastard :D

[Zygote]

Oh, and HNA is quite right: Oolon is an evil bastard :D



Oolon, is this true?

[Barefoot Bree]

Couldn't find the Brit-Yank dictionary I found a few years ago; it must have disappeared from the net.

I did find this one, though: http://septicscompanion.com/ Give it a look-through to spot other words or phrases to look out for. This one isn't as good as the other; that one had Yank words that trip up Brits as well as vice versa, which seems to be all this one has.

[Zygote]

:D

"cheerio: interj goodbye. Fairly old-fashioned and light-hearted. Originates from the 1970s, when one of the favourite killing methods of the Welsh mafia was to intravenously inject the victim with breakfast cereal."

[Oolon Colluphid]

Oh, and HNA is quite right: Oolon is an evil bastard :D



Oolon, is this true?
Well known for it.

I was going to suggest that you also remember that, just as policemen are known a 'Bobbies', the friendly nickname for a traffic warden is 'titface', but I thought that was pushing it :evil:

[LoneWolf]

And as has been shown here there is another important thing to remember about Brits: Don't trust them!

;)

[Oolon Colluphid]

And also, when you come to filling up the car ('automobile'), what you call gasoline is known as 'diesel' in the UK. Librarians formerly were mainly older ladies, who were often a bit deaf, so it is now customary to shout in libraries. Public 'rest rooms' are in short supply in many towns, so shops are obliged to let you use theirs, so feel free to ask.

[Oolon Colluphid]

Just don't be "loud!" Over here, that's seen as being "pushy" and "aggressive". Same with being overly familiar. Expect people to be fairly reserved & not "gushy". We tend to have a fairly large personal space too.
The personal space thing is true, but it varies. People from towns tend to have a smaller space than from the country.

(Seriously.)

[Cath B]

People in Britain love to queue. Being basically deferential, we tend to queue with our backs towards the bus stop (etc), so always join a queue at what appears to be the front.

Taxi drivers are often lonely, so encourage them to tell you about their life and opinions. They also expect you to haggle.

When entering a railway compartment, be sure to shake hands with all the other occupants.

Dammit Oolon. I had my forehead Wrinkled for a full three seconds over all that!

And i'm a Btir!

[Cath B]

People in Britain love to queue. Being basically deferential, we tend to queue with our backs towards the bus stop (etc), so always join a queue at what appears to be the front.

Taxi drivers are often lonely, so encourage them to tell you about their life and opinions. They also expect you to haggle.

When entering a railway compartment, be sure to shake hands with all the other occupants.

Dammit Oolon. I had my forehead Wrinkled for a full three seconds over all that!

And i'm a Btir!

And as you can see, the stress of it brought out my latent dyslexia.

[Cath B]

In the small Scottish town where I live (pop 3000) it is customary to make a greeting or at least smile at anyone you pass (apart from the odd surly youth) whether you recognise them or not.

In the large town a mere three miles away this would be consideredsomewhat bizarre .

[Oolon Colluphid]

Oddly enough, I've found people to be very friendly in London (except the centre). I found it strange, on the occasions I've caught a bus from (eg) Richmond, that others at the stop would just start talking to me. (It's odd because you might expect it in country villages, but not in big impersonal cities. Then again, I think much of London is in fact a host of small villages.)

[Cath B]

Yes, I find folk will talk to you at bus stops and tube stations in large towns and cities but not just while passing.

Too many folk to catch everyone's eye in some parts and in quiet areas folk can be anxious for their personal safety.

[Ray Moscow]

We might supplement Oolon's advice with this (http://carroll.org.uk/archives/2000/01/01/advice-to-american-tourists-in-england).

[DMB]

Oolon and Ray are being very naughty!

Youngish Brits will know a lot of American vocabulary, culled from films and music. Older ones won't always get it.

There's one thing to remember and that is we have different euphemisms for the places were we relieve ourselves. Don't use "john" or "bathroom" or "rest room". Use "loo" or "lavatory" or "toilet" or just "Ladies'" or "Gents'".

Don't call people "sir" or "ma'am". Just say, "excuse me" as a preliminary to asking for something unless the person is behind a desk or counter and expecting to serve you.

The things we sit on are called "bottoms", "bums" or "arses", in descending order of respectability.

[Oolon Colluphid]

Yup. Bums are what we sit on; tramps are vagrants.

Oh, and the two-legged things like jeans etc are trousers; pants are underwear for the lower abdominal region.

Unless you're at the Tower of London, 'crown jewels' is likely to refer to a man's gonads.

[Zygote]

Oolon and Ray are being very naughty!

But funny!

I'll be sure to wear my loudest Bermuda shorts and to order everyone around in the loudest voice possible, while enunciating extra slowly so that these here British furrinners will be sure to understand me.

I will wear wellies on my head, over my pants, while (or is it "whilst"?) demanding that the man in the red dress with the ruffled neck at the Tower show me some crown jewels.

In exchange for this exhibition, I will expect tea and crumpets, served by a man in a big furry black hat.

[Zygote]

There's one thing to remember and that is we have different euphemisms for the places were we relieve ourselves. Don't use "john" or "bathroom" or "rest room". Use "loo" or "lavatory" or "toilet" or just "Ladies'" or "Gents'".

Do people still "spend a penny" or is that euphemism only for those of us old enough to remember hauling a pocketful heavy coins around just in case?

I was appalled to find what the going rate for a pee was in the main train stations in London last September. But when you've gotta go, you've gotta go.

[Zygote]

Ray, and Oolon, I thank you! You've given me some great material for a sort of final exam for my language class for the kids. I do want them to be aware of how deep a hole they can step into without meaning to.

[DMB]

Do people still "spend a penny" or is that euphemism only for those of us old enough to remember hauling a pocketful heavy coins around just in case?

I was appalled to find what the going rate for a pee was in the main train stations in London last September. But when you've gotta go, you've gotta go.

I haven't heard anyone say "spend a penny" for years. Other euphemisms in this vein when someone is visiting one's house are "Would you like to wash your hands?" and "Can I show you the geography of the house?" (not that I would ever say either). BTW don't in general refer to someone's house as their "home", as in "You have a lovely home". You can say, "I like your house/flat". And British people are not much given to showing people round their houses. I think we feel too embarrassed. So if you do get invited for a meal, you'll see the reception rooms and the loo, and that's it.

Another thing is that that vaguely green place where the owner may grow a few flowers, vegetables etc. is never called a "yard". It's a "garden". A yard is usually paved, tarmacked or concreted. I have felt severely offended by having my beautiful garden described as a yard. To me a yard is where the dustbins are kept.

[4321lynx]

Do people still "spend a penny" or is that euphemism only for those of us old enough to remember hauling a pocketful heavy coins around just in case?

I was appalled to find what the going rate for a pee was in the main train stations in London last September. But when you've gotta go, you've gotta go.

I haven't heard anyone say "spend a penny" for years. Other euphemisms in this vein when someone is visiting one's house are "Would you like to wash your hands?" and "Can I show you the geography of the house?" (not that I would ever say either). BTW don't in general refer to someone's house as their "home", as in "You have a lovely home". You can say, "I like your house/flat". And British people are not much given to showing people round their houses. I think we feel too embarrassed. So if you do get invited for a meal, you'll see the reception rooms and the loo, and that's it.

Another thing is that that vaguely green place where the owner may grow a few flowers, vegetables etc. is never called a "yard". It's a "garden". A yard is usually paved, tarmacked or concreted. I have felt severely offended by having my beautiful garden described as a yard. To me a yard is where the dustbins are kept.

BTW

Dustbins = garbage cans.

[Berthold]

Wow, those Americans must be a loud lot!

To my impression, the British are much more open to conversation with total strangers than most people of Central Europe.

[DMB]

It's a generational thing. The younger, the more open. When I was young, one did not normally address people one didn't know. Only in case of necessity, such as in a railway carriage one might ask someone,

"Excuse me, would you mind if I opened/closed the window?"

I moved to Switzerland 22 years ago and I still sometimes have to remind myself when I step into a lift or a doctor's waiting room that I must say "Bonjour" to people already there. It's not the norm in England to greet strangers in this way. But most of the traditional British inhibitions are melting away nowadays.

[4321lynx]

It's a generational thing. The younger, the more open. When I was young, one did not normally address people one didn't know. Only in case of necessity, such as in a railway carriage one might ask someone,

"Excuse me, would you mind if I opened/closed the window?"

I moved to Switzerland 22 years ago and I still sometimes have to remind myself when I step into a lift or a doctor's waiting room that I must say "Bonjour" to people already there. It's not the norm in England to greet strangers in this way. But most of the traditional British inhibitions are melting away nowadays.

Hmmm...

Not everyone welcomes change. An English ex RAF friend of mine here has said several times "I have seen many changes in my long life, and none has been for the better". :evil:

NB When he says it "better" sounds like "bettah", & it is always "none has" on the strength that "none" = "not one". :)

[DMB]

It's a generational thing. The younger, the more open. When I was young, one did not normally address people one didn't know. Only in case of necessity, such as in a railway carriage one might ask someone,

"Excuse me, would you mind if I opened/closed the window?"

I moved to Switzerland 22 years ago and I still sometimes have to remind myself when I step into a lift or a doctor's waiting room that I must say "Bonjour" to people already there. It's not the norm in England to greet strangers in this way. But most of the traditional British inhibitions are melting away nowadays.

Hmmm...

Not everyone welcomes change. An English ex RAF friend of mine here has said several times "I have seen many changes in my long life, and none has been for the better". :evil:

NB When he says it "better" sounds like "bettah", & it is always "none has" on the strength that "none" = "not one". :)

Unless he is very old, way before he was born, Fowler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fowler%27s_Modern_English_Usage) was explaining that "none" could mean either "not one" or "not any", so that a singular or a plural verb could be correct.

[epepke]

Fairy Liquid: a common watery dishwashing detergent
Faggot: besides a stick or cigarette (usually "fag) a dumpling made of mostly pork liver
Two Fruits in Syrup is just that
Randy: horny

[4321lynx]

Unless he is very old, way before he was born, Fowler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fowler%27s_Modern_English_Usage) was explaining that "none" could mean either "not one" or "not any", so that a singular or a plural verb could be correct.

You're probably right. Will check when/if I find my copy of Fowler, haven't seen it for a few years :). The guy's old, flew in WW II.

[Zygote]

Fairy Liquid: a common watery dishwashing detergent
Faggot: besides a stick or cigarette (usually "fag) a dumpling made of mostly pork liver
Two Fruits in Syrup is just that
Randy: horny

Ah, that explains the menu item at a pub we may eat at: faggots in herbs.

Tasty?

[Berthold]

By the way, not to forget this classic (http://lib.ru/ANEKDOTY/mikes1.txt) (well, a bit dated :)).

Or this (http://www.sirc.org/news/watching_the_english.shtml), which is somewhat more recent.

[Zygote]

Those look wonderful.

[epepke]

Fairy Liquid: a common watery dishwashing detergent
Faggot: besides a stick or cigarette (usually "fag) a dumpling made of mostly pork liver
Two Fruits in Syrup is just that
Randy: horny

Ah, that explains the menu item at a pub we may eat at: faggots in herbs.

Tasty?

Actually, I found them excellent.