Crazy Catholics Ban Biology!

[BioBeing]

If you are a Catholic Bishop in Louisiana, you apparently ARE the acme of bat-shit reality denying craziness (other than the Pope, of course).

Legislators in Louisiana are considering a bill to prohibit human-animal hybrids. We've been all over this subject before — it's ridiculous and founded on complete incomprehension of what the research is all about. How ridiculous is it? SB 115 bans the "mixing of human and animal cells in a petri dish"!

Guess who is pushing this ban? The Louisiana Conference of Catholic Bishops, a collection of professional ignoramuses, like this guy, Archbishop Alfred Hughes: old, white celibates with clerical collars and heads stuffed full of decaying dogma.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/04/catholic_geezers_deny_biology.php

[VoxRat]

If you are a Catholic Bishop in Louisiana, you apparently ARE the acme of bat-shit reality denying craziness (other than the Pope, of course).

... SB 115 bans the "mixing of human and animal cells in a petri dish"!

Amazing. Is it too optimistic to guess that this doesn't have a chance of passing?

[BWE]

I'd say it's very optimistic anyway.

[DMB]

I liked this:

You're doing this because biology disgusts you. This isn't unusual at all — many people are squeamish about the oozy, squishy, squirty, gooey, slimy, sloppy, messy wet business of what goes on beneath their skins. That it makes you feel icky is not grounds for demanding that others unburdened by that bias must follow your taboos. Your personal sense of revulsion is not an argument for your position.

Worse, this is a topic all tied up in your, umm, issues with sex. Your priesthood is just plain weird in its denial of a basic and healthy human urge and its obsession with regulating the private behavior of others. You are not normal. You are the wrong people to be taking on the responsibility of dictating anything about human sexuality — you're just too far out on the fringe of perversity. There are a lot of weird sexual practices out there, but I'm afraid denial and repression and the kind of self-loathing that characterizes the professional celibates of the Catholic church are among the weirdest.

[BioBeing]

Yeah that was good - I do love a good PZ rant!

[Ray Moscow]

If you are a Catholic Bishop in Louisiana, you apparently ARE the acme of bat-shit reality denying craziness (other than the Pope, of course).

... SB 115 bans the "mixing of human and animal cells in a petri dish"!

Amazing. Is it too optimistic to guess that this doesn't have a chance of passing?

I'm guessing that you're not from Louisiana.

This is one of the states that pushed creationism into "science" education.

LA Ray

[BioBeing]

With that other reality-denying, religious-bat-shit-crazy, Bobby Jindall, as the Gov. who knows what damage they can do.

[Berthold]

But, uh, isn't the KKK anti - Catholic? :evil:

[Barbarian]

What are the alternatives to Petri dishes?

[BioBeing]

Tissue culture flasks.

[BioBeing]

But, uh, isn't the KKK anti - Catholic? :evil:

The enemy of my enemy is not my friend, to change a famous saying..

[Berthold]

Just meaning to say people might vote against the move because it was initiated by Catholic bishops. :)

[Zebulon]

Legislators in Louisiana are considering a bill to prohibit human-animal hybrids. We've been all over this subject before — it's ridiculous and founded on complete incomprehension of what the research is all about. How ridiculous is it? SB 115 bans the "mixing of human and animal cells in a petri dish"!

Guess who is pushing this ban? The Louisiana Conference of Catholic Bishops, a collection of professional ignoramuses, like this guy, Archbishop Alfred Hughes: old, white celibates with clerical collars and heads stuffed full of decaying dogma.

Human-plant hybrids, as long as they are on the level of substance rather than appearance, are apparently okay, as long as they have the blessing of a priest.

[RBH]

I'd suggest that every Lousianian who is diabetic and takes insulin quit taking insulin, since it's the product of a human-animal hybrid (http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Insulin.html). In the manufacturing process, a sketchy description is that the human genes coding for insulin production are inserted into bacteria, the bacteria reproduce like crazy, and then the insulin is harvested from them. Gee, maybe the good Bishop is diabetic and should quit taking his human-animal hybrid product! :D

[Berthold]

In the manufacturing process, a sketchy description is that the human genes coding for insulin production are inserted into bacteria, the bacteria reproduce like crazy, and then the insulin is harvested from them. Gee, maybe the good Bishop is diabetic and should quit taking his human-animal hybrid product! :D
He might even think it to be a human - animal hybrid. :evil:

[BioBeing]

Well, for heavens sake no-one tell the good Bishop that humans ARE animals! That might really ruin his day!

[Teshi]

Is the actual text of the proposed bill available online anywhere?

[Oolon Colluphid]

I'd suggest that every Lousianian who is diabetic and takes insulin quit taking insulin, since it's the product of a human-animal hybrid (http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Insulin.html). In the manufacturing process, a sketchy description is that the human genes coding for insulin production are inserted into bacteria, the bacteria reproduce like crazy, and then the insulin is harvested from them.
pssst! bacteria aren't animals :D :p

[DMB]

I'd suggest that every Lousianian who is diabetic and takes insulin quit taking insulin, since it's the product of a human-animal hybrid (http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Insulin.html). In the manufacturing process, a sketchy description is that the human genes coding for insulin production are inserted into bacteria, the bacteria reproduce like crazy, and then the insulin is harvested from them.
pssst! bacteria aren't animals :D :p

Spoilsport! Do you really think a Catholic bishop from Louisiana would know that?

[Oolon Colluphid]

Is the actual text of the proposed bill available online anywhere?
I've been through the State Legislature site, and can only find this, which has been "considered (http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/agenda.asp?meeting_id=11554)" (whatever that means -- isn't clear if it's become law or not):

SB738 - 2008 Regular Session
Author: MORRISH
Status: ASSIGNED TO SENATE HEALTH & WELFARE
Considered on 5/21/2008
Updated: 4/22/2008
Summary: CRIME/PUNISHMENT: Prohibits human cloning and human-animal hybrids. (8/15/08) (http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=480397)
B. The legislature further finds that:
(1) Advances in research and technology have made possible the creation of human-animal hybrids.
(2) Human-animal hybrids are grossly unethical because they blur the line between human and animal, male and female, parent and child, and one individual and another individual.
(3) Human dignity and the integrity of the human species are compromised by human-animal hybrids.
(4) The uniqueness of individual human beings is manifested in a particular way through their brain and their reproductive organs/cells.
(5) With an increase in emerging zoonotic infection threatening the global public health, human-animal hybrids present a particularly optimal means of genetic transfers that could increase the efficiency or virulence of diseases threatening both humans and animals.
I can find nothing about Martiny, the senator who's supposed to have introduced the legislation, introducing such legislation. :dunno:

[dancer_rnb]

I'd suggest that every Lousianian who is diabetic and takes insulin quit taking insulin, since it's the product of a human-animal hybrid (http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Insulin.html). In the manufacturing process, a sketchy description is that the human genes coding for insulin production are inserted into bacteria, the bacteria reproduce like crazy, and then the insulin is harvested from them.
pssst! bacteria aren't animals :D :p

I have to question that prokaryotes are used to produce insulin.
Would the protein would be properly folded?

[Oolon Colluphid]

I have to question that prokaryotes are used to produce insulin.
Seems you'd be wrong to do so though:

Insulin therapy

http://www.medscape.com/druginfo/monograph?cid=med&drugid=5218&drugname=Humulin+R+Inj&monotype=monograph&secid=7
Would the protein would be properly folded?
Can't see why not. Folding is simply a property of the amino acid sequences: line 'em up in order X, and the hydrogen bonds pull it into shape Y.

[BioBeing]

I'd suggest that every Lousianian who is diabetic and takes insulin quit taking insulin, since it's the product of a human-animal hybrid (http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Insulin.html). In the manufacturing process, a sketchy description is that the human genes coding for insulin production are inserted into bacteria, the bacteria reproduce like crazy, and then the insulin is harvested from them.
pssst! bacteria aren't animals :D :p

I have to question that prokaryotes are used to produce insulin.
Would the protein would be properly folded?
My job involves getting bacteria to produce a lot of different eukaryotic proteins. Versatile little buggers, but they do fail about 50% of the time. Insulin is a definite success story.

[DMB]

pssst! bacteria aren't animals :D :p

I have to question that prokaryotes are used to produce insulin.
Would the protein would be properly folded?
My job involves getting bacteria to produce a lot of different eukaryotic proteins. Versatile little buggers, but they do fail about 50% of the time. Insulin is a definite success story.

Ho! Ho! I know it's more than just proteins; it's sugars and fats as well. But what do you think are the chances of achieving the holy grail of human milk? So many problems arise because babies are fed on cow's milk rather than human milk.

[Teshi]

Is the actual text of the proposed bill available online anywhere?
I've been through the State Legislature site, and can only find this, which has been "considered (http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/agenda.asp?meeting_id=11554)" (whatever that means -- isn't clear if it's become law or not):

SB738 - 2008 Regular Session
Author: MORRISH
Status: ASSIGNED TO SENATE HEALTH & WELFARE
Considered on 5/21/2008
Updated: 4/22/2008
Summary: CRIME/PUNISHMENT: Prohibits human cloning and human-animal hybrids. (8/15/08) (http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=480397)
B. The legislature further finds that:
(1) Advances in research and technology have made possible the creation of human-animal hybrids.
(2) Human-animal hybrids are grossly unethical because they blur the line between human and animal, male and female, parent and child, and one individual and another individual.
(3) Human dignity and the integrity of the human species are compromised by human-animal hybrids.
(4) The uniqueness of individual human beings is manifested in a particular way through their brain and their reproductive organs/cells.
(5) With an increase in emerging zoonotic infection threatening the global public health, human-animal hybrids present a particularly optimal means of genetic transfers that could increase the efficiency or virulence of diseases threatening both humans and animals.
I can find nothing about Martiny, the senator who's supposed to have introduced the legislation, introducing such legislation. :dunno:

Nor can I.

[frazier]

I guess all those whose defective heart valves have been replaced with porcine ones better start lining up for the recall procedure.

[dancer_rnb]

I have to question that prokaryotes are used to produce insulin.
Seems you'd be wrong to do so though:

Insulin therapy

http://www.medscape.com/druginfo/monograph?cid=med&drugid=5218&drugname=Humulin+R+Inj&monotype=monograph&secid=7
Would the protein would be properly folded?
Can't see why not. Folding is simply a property of the amino acid sequences: line 'em up in order X, and the hydrogen bonds pull it into shape Y.

I seem to remember than a lot of proteins fold properly only with eukaryote membranes. Insulin may be one that doesn't require such a membrane.
Or maybe a lot of progress has been made over the last 15 years :)

[hecaterin]

[QUOTE]Would the protein would be properly folded? Can't see why not. Folding is simply a property of the amino acid sequences: line 'em up in order X, and the hydrogen bonds pull it into shape Y.Not quite so simple. There are very often helpers (chaperones). Things can go wrong (prions). And still no-one has managed to get a program to do it from scratch (ab initio) based on the physical properties of the amino acids. All the best prediction programs use similarity to previously solved structures (see PDB). It's more than hydrogen bonds, there's charge, hydrophilia, polarity. If you can solve protein folding, you'll win a Nobel.

[Oolon Colluphid]

Thanks! I knew there was more to it than just H bonds, but didn't bother to look up what :D

[Barbarian]

[quote=dancer_rnb;28436]Can't see why not. Folding is simply a property of the amino acid sequences: line 'em up in order X, and the hydrogen bonds pull it into shape Y.Not quite so simple. There are very often helpers (chaperones). Things can go wrong (prions). And still no-one has managed to get a program to do it from scratch (ab initio) based on the physical properties of the amino acids. All the best prediction programs use similarity to previously solved structures (see PDB). It's more than hydrogen bonds, there's charge, hydrophilia, polarity. If you can solve protein folding, you'll win a Nobel.Oh. I did not know this. Where do I start looking for more info, especially for a good (thorough and as self-containing as possible) description of the problem?

I'm serious, btw., for a given value of serious.

[BioBeing]

I have to question that prokaryotes are used to produce insulin.
Would the protein would be properly folded?
My job involves getting bacteria to produce a lot of different eukaryotic proteins. Versatile little buggers, but they do fail about 50% of the time. Insulin is a definite success story.

Ho! Ho! I know it's more than just proteins; it's sugars and fats as well. But what do you think are the chances of achieving the holy grail of human milk? So many problems arise because babies are fed on cow's milk rather than human milk.

I make biochemical reagents (enzymes) for use in biomedical research and therapeutic proteins (like insulin) for clinical use. Not for nutrition.

[BioBeing]

[quote=Oolon Colluphid;28438]Not quite so simple. There are very often helpers (chaperones). Things can go wrong (prions). And still no-one has managed to get a program to do it from scratch (ab initio) based on the physical properties of the amino acids. All the best prediction programs use similarity to previously solved structures (see PDB). It's more than hydrogen bonds, there's charge, hydrophilia, polarity. If you can solve protein folding, you'll win a Nobel.Oh. I did not know this. Where do I start looking for more info, especially for a good (thorough and as self-containing as possible) description of the problem?

I'm serious, btw., for a given value of serious.

Look at the folding@home (http://folding.stanford.edu/) site for a start.

[hecaterin]

I was just going to say folding@home...

Also for beginners, just wiki protein folding

The PDB databank (http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/home/home.do) is the primary repository for solved protein structures, and has quite a lot of resources. Check the "getting started" and "general education" links.

CASP (http://predictioncenter.org/) could be of interest, too, to see the state of the art.