Is it okay for me to post on these forums?

[The_Spiritual_Occultist]

I'd like to first start off by saying hi. :)

Secondly, I'd like to ask what may seem to be a strange question: Is it all right for me to post on these forums?

The reason I ask is because I understand that these forums seem to have been created mostly for those who support secularism. While I don't disapprove of secularism and don't consider myself against it, I can't really say, at this moment, that I support it either (I think I am neutral on the subject.)

From a look around the forums (and I admit it was a brief one) it seems that the majority of people who post here are atheists or agnostics. Is it permissible for someone of a spiritual mindset to post on these forums? I don't identify with a particular religion, however, I am very spiritual and believe strongly in most things supernatural. I am very interested in the occult, believe in what it encompasses, and hope to become a practicing occultist one day (i.e. mediumship, magick, astral projection, etc.)

So is it all right for me to post here, about these subjects and others? I am not out to persuade anyone to my may of thinking, but I do like to talk about my spiritual and occult interests with others, and am interested in others' viewpoints as long as they are polite and respectful.

[Jobar]

TSO, you're more than welcome.

If you want to discuss spiritualism or any sort of religion, you may find you have too many people trying to talk to you, though! Most of us are indeed skeptics, but it gets boring when everyone on a discussion board agrees.

[The_Spiritual_Occultist]

Thank you for your welcome, Jobar. :)

I felt I had to ask because I've had some online communications that have ended badly (for me) with my being mocked and insulted because of my spiritual and occultist beliefs. I wish to state here that I know full well that the vast, vast majority of atheists, agnostics and sceptics are lovely people who are tolerant of other people and their views/opinions/religious or spiritual beliefs - most of my friends are either atheists or agnostics. It's just been my bad luck to come across a few that have been overly judgmental, prejudiced and bigoted towards anyone who believes in the supernatural, which has made me feel that I need to be somewhat cautious online.

A co-worker of mine once said: "The only thing as bad as a religious fundamentalist is an atheist fundamentalist." I personally agree with this, as I think fundamentalism in both areas often leads to prejudice and bigotry.

[Beau]

Fundamentalism can be predictable, and predictability can be rather dull, especially in discussions. You're a welcome addiction to this forum and I'm quite impressed by your netiquette. Welcome to SC. :)

[Notta]

Welcome to SC!

Yes, while the majority of members are secularists, humanists, atheists, agnostics, etc., a secular board means there is no specific religious or theological basis for our existence.

You're certainly welcome to post here. But be aware that, if you make religious claims to support your opinions, you might be pressed to provide non-religious evidence. People who come here just to proselytize have not found a respectful, non-critical audience.

[The_Spiritual_Occultist]

But be aware that, if you make religious claims to support your opinions, you might be pressed to provide non-religious evidence. People who come here just to proselytize have not found a respectful, non-critical audience.

It would probably be supernatural or occult-based claims, rather than religious claims. I will also try, where possible, to frame what I say as my own personal belief, rather than an exact Truth (although of course, it is my belief that what I am saying is a fact) but I will try not to speak of them as proven facts unless I have knowledge that there is some solid evidence for them.

I can't promise that I will always manage this, but I'll do my best.

[Barefoot Bree]

Oh, honey, anybody with the brass to have John Denver as their avatar is OK by me! (Check out the title under my username!)

[The_Spiritual_Occultist]

Oh, honey, anybody with the brass to have John Denver as their avatar is OK by me! (Check out the title under my username!)

Oh, you're a fan of John Denver? I have to admit, I haven't heard a lot of his songs, but really like the ones I have heard, and after reading up on him, respect his views on life and nature. He also seems to have been a rather spiritual person, which in my view is always a plus. (That's not to imply that not being spiritual is a flaw, just that I tend to think that spirituality is an asset in people.)

[Barefoot Bree]

Yes, I'm a fan, although I've lost all the albums I used to have of his - mostly because that's what they were - albums, as in vinyl records. And a couple of 8-track tapes, and a few cassettes. Gawd, I'm dating myself. I tried a couple of years ago to find some CD's but all I got were a couple of truly awful compendiums. I'm going to have to do some serious research to identify which albums I used to have and recreate them.

His early stuff seemed much more authentic to me than the later stuff.

[Jobar]

TSO, I will caution you that no group of people contains nothing but nice, reasonable, and polite members. That's true for skeptics and doubters in general, and members of the Secular Cafe in particular. We staff members try to keep the discussions and arguments that are the usual fare on boards like this reasonably polite, and will act against those who regularly show a serious lack of manners.

You'll probably get lots of criticism for your views. Be aware that criticism is NOT the same thing as insult! We try our best to minimize undeserved insult, but we encourage fair criticism of all ideas- including our own.

If you feel that some post has gone past fair criticism and into insult territory, please use the 'report post' button- http://secularcafe.org/images/oceanzero/buttons/report.gif.

[The_Spiritual_Occultist]

You'll probably get lots of criticism for your views. Be aware that criticism is NOT the same thing as insult! We try our best to minimize undeserved insult, but we encourage fair criticism of all ideas- including our own.

If you feel that some post has gone past fair criticism and into insult territory, please use the 'report post' button- http://secularcafe.org/images/oceanzero/buttons/report.gif.

Fair criticism is all right (although I must admit that I sometimes wish that people could work more on accentuating the positive (to quote the song) rather than focusing on the negatives all the time, although of course there are cases in which the negatives need to be pointed out.

The kind of criticism I'm speaking of is the personal, insulting kind, going somewhat like this:

"You believe in the occult/spirits/the supernatural/magick/elemental creatures/gods/eternal life, etc, therefore you are either stupid or crazy." That's been said to me, in differing ways, on occasion, and it's never pleasant.

[Jobar]

Our usual guideline for disputes is "attack the idea, not the person." Which sounds quite simple, but can be difficult in practice.

There are people who come to boards like this looking for nothing but agreement and approval; they're always disappointed. But if you want to avoid disagreement, you can; however, that means you must avoid disagreeing with other members.

I've been talking on boards like this ever since they were invented. I find that our disagreements are more interesting, and teach us more, than our agreements! But if you have ideas which are so near and dear to your heart that you cannot abide hearing them disagreed with and criticized, it's probably best to avoid discussing them on open forums.

[columbus]

TSO, I will caution you that no group of people contains nothing but nice, reasonable, and polite members.

Oh trust me, Jobar is putting it mildly.

Just say what you think and let the pieces fall where they may.

Welcome, glad you joined us!

Tom

[Politesse]

Welcome, Spiritual Occultist! I will not lie and say that you will be welcomed by everyone, as some of the members have a chip on their shoulders the size of Indiana where spiritual matters are concerned, and others will regard you as a free chew toy, but for the most part it is an open community. At least in theory. You can always have a conversation with a mod or someone if it feels like things are veering into pure personal attacks, which are not considered acceptable here. The actual owners of the site meant it to be a place where people of diverse experiences and backgrounds could come and converse together. For my part, I'm happy to see a new member, especially one with good taste in music. What kind of occultism are you into? My wife practices various forms of divination, and we're both known to use herbological knowledge to spiritual advantage from time to time. I do dream work.

[BioBeing]

I dont know why people are being so frickin polite here. You will get the respect here you deserve. Post the usual banal unevidenced spiritualist crap and that means you will get no respect. If you've got evidence, well let's talk...

[columbus]

I dont know why people are being so frickin polite here.
Because the frickin polite people might kick your ass.
Tom

[Goodchild]

Our usual guideline for disputes is "attack the idea, not the person." Which sounds quite simple, but can be difficult in practice.

This is the goal, of course. But he might be unaware of just how strenuous the attack on his ideas may be.

Just to be perfectly frank with you, don't be surprised if someone calls what you believe a steaming pile of shit. Now if they call you a steaming pile of shit that's a different story and the mods will split that out. But your ideas, if you present them, are absolutely fair game for the harshest criticism.

But then, everyone's ideas are fair game. It's true that most of the people here probably share a high degree of similarity on many topics, but there's no sacred cows.

fwiw I used to have a strong interest in the occult when I was much younger. I look back on much of it fondly but recognize now that it was all just absolute flabbergab.

[Daynna]

I am a nice person. Welcome.

[MrFungus420]

...and am interested in others' viewpoints as long as they are polite and respectful.

Then you might have a bit of a problem.

Respect is something to be earned, not automatically given. Unless you can manage to give a meaningful definition of "spiritual" (and you would be the first one to do so) and be able to support your claims about it, I am not very likely to have any respect for your ideas about it.

But, the introduction thread isn't really the place for that discussion, so welcome to the forum. Have fun posting and I hope you have a bit of a thick skin. ;)

[David B]

Hi from me, too:D

It's more interesting to talk with someone who has thought for themselves, even when you disagree with them, than someone who has just, for instance, swallowed the Answers in Genesis hook, line and sinker.

No doubt there will be reasons for you coming to believe as you do, and in other threads it will be interesting to see what you believe and why you believe it. And to examine whether the reasons are good ones or bad ones with you.

Apart from that, though, there is much more to the board, in terms of games, music threads etc where metaphysical differences of opinion are more or less irrelevant.

One thing - it's better if you can avoid viewing an attack on your ideas as an attack on you personally, and as a corollary we prefer from all posters and 'attack the idea not the person' mode of discussion.

Smart people can often believe dumb things, and we prefer a 'that's a dumb idea, because...' sort of approach to a 'you are a dumbass' sort of approach.

We do let that slide a bit if it becomes apparent that the other person is more dumbass than smart person with some dumb ideas though, it has to be said.

What you will find is that - and this is very much the case with atheist infighting, on questions like freewill etc - that while there can be strong differences in thread, rancour tends not to continue outside that thread.

David

[DMB]

Welcome to Secular Café, TSO!

As others have said, our attitude is that personal insults are frowned on, but ideas are fair game. As a result we do get a lot of rather heated discussions. We have one area, the Smoking Section where people can roll up their sleeves and have a scrap, although even there we do keep to certain rules.

Please make sure you read this (http://www.secularcafe.org/showthread.php?t=544), so that you understand our simple guidelines.

It might be an idea for you to read quite a few threads to get a feel for what sets off passionate arguments and perhaps make a few early posts on things non-spiritual to get the feel of the water as it were.

[rog]

Welcome to the forum Spiritual Occultist, I hope that you enjoy your time here :)
How did you find us? Please feel free to tell us a little about yourself.

[Pendaric]

Welcome.

As has been mentioned, there is far more to our little corner of the net than just the religious discussions. Why not take a try at some of the games or lighter chat side of things, where religious views don't come in to it at all?

[The_Spiritual_Occultist]

Respect is something to be earned, not automatically given.

I agree in general with this, but I do feel that a very basic level of respect *should* be automatically given to other people. I am talking about the small, basic level of respect that I believe all people should automatically give each other as fellow human beings - the kind of respect that causes people to walk by each other in the street and not spit on each other. That kind of thing. I do think that a basic level of respect should automatically be afforded to all people, and that all other respect after that needs to be earned.

I hope you have a bit of a thick skin. ;)

If I'm to be honest, I would have to say that I don't have much of a thick skin, although I realise that it would be beneficial to develop one. It's quite strange - as a young child, I almost never cared what other people thought of me and my ideas, but since the age of 15/16, I've started to care a lot about what other people think, perhaps too much.

[Jobar]

We do attempt to enforce a minimum of politeness. But respect, I think, is something else entirely.

[Gooch's Dad]

Like Bree, I'm also somewhat of an aging hippie, and also a big fan of John Denver's music. My brother and I sing his stuff all the time, with me playing guitar.

When I'm visiting my sis out in California, we often go to her "John Denver spot", along the Monterey shore near where his airplane went down.

Time to get the guitar out and play "Whiskey Basin Blues" and do a bit of yodeling, to welcome you to the Cafe, TSO!

[The_Spiritual_Occultist]

Like Bree, I'm also somewhat of an aging hippie, and also a big fan of John Denver's music. My brother and I sing his stuff all the time, with me playing guitar.

When I'm visiting my sis out in California, we often go to her "John Denver spot", along the Monterey shore near where his airplane went down.

Time to get the guitar out and play "Whiskey Basin Blues" and do a bit of yodeling, to welcome you to the Cafe, TSO!

My favourite John Denver songs are Sunshine On My Shoulders, Rocky Mountain High, Country Roads, Thank God I'm a Country Boy and Calypso. I haven't heard the one you mentioned, I'll go in search of it.

[Daynna]

Weird.. I lived in Monterey in 1999. Had no idea he died near there.

[Clivedurdle]

Welcome.

I've read a bit about the history of witchcraft, Jung, medieval thinking, John Dee...

I am beginning to think xianity is actually an alchemic tradition that has lost its roots by concentrating on stories about a godman and developing creeds.

I also studied Macbeth and Umberto Eco.

Do you see yourself as some form of therapist or healer?

For example have you heard of acoustic archaeology?

[Barefoot Bree]

Like Bree, I'm also somewhat of an aging hippie, and also a big fan of John Denver's music. My brother and I sing his stuff all the time, with me playing guitar.

When I'm visiting my sis out in California, we often go to her "John Denver spot", along the Monterey shore near where his airplane went down.

Time to get the guitar out and play "Whiskey Basin Blues" and do a bit of yodeling, to welcome you to the Cafe, TSO!

My favourite John Denver songs are Sunshine On My Shoulders, Rocky Mountain High, Country Roads, Thank God I'm a Country Boy and Calypso. I haven't heard the one you mentioned, I'll go in search of it.
Add Annie's Song,
Fly Away,
Back Home Again,
I'm Sorry
Farewell Andromeda
Angels from Montgomery

That should do you. Looking over his discography in Wiki, my favorite album was Poems, Prayers and Promises. Great stuff.

[Barefoot Bree]

Aleister Crowley conversation has been moved to its own thread in Religion, here (http://www.secularcafe.org/showthread.php?t=14232).

[MrFungus420]

Respect is something to be earned, not automatically given.

I agree in general with this, but I do feel that a very basic level of respect *should* be automatically given to other people. I am talking about the small, basic level of respect that I believe all people should automatically give each other as fellow human beings - the kind of respect that causes people to walk by each other in the street and not spit on each other. That kind of thing. I do think that a basic level of respect should automatically be afforded to all people, and that all other respect after that needs to be earned.\

I would call that a basic level of civility, and on that I would generally agree. My working attitude is to treat people as if they deserve respect until they show otherwise (or until they verify it and I do respect them).

I hope you have a bit of a thick skin. ;)

If I'm to be honest, I would have to say that I don't have much of a thick skin, although I realise that it would be beneficial to develop one. It's quite strange - as a young child, I almost never cared what other people thought of me and my ideas, but since the age of 15/16, I've started to care a lot about what other people think, perhaps too much.[/QUOTE]

That's one of the wonderful things about kids, they don't care about it.

The trick on a forum is to remember to not takes things personally. The only thing that can really be "hurt" by discussion is your preconceptions.