Growing your own food

[Daynna]

How many of you have considered growing your own food, for the first time, due to the economic troubles?

This article really inspired me:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/real_food/article6098277.ece

I either want to do a square foot garden (http://www.amazon.com/All-New-Square-Foot-Gardening/dp/1591862027/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240364770&sr=8-1) or container gardening until we buy a house of our own.

The thought of being more self-sufficient is strangely appealing to me all of a sudden. I have realized that if for some reason we either couldn't afford food, or didn't have someone to buy food from, we would starve! Even if those situations never come about, it is still a major plus to have fresh veggies on hand. It would be also nice to have a hobby other than video games. :)

[Anne]

Not me. I want to grow food because I've always been cheap and into high quality... ;)

But Burpees seeds sales have increased by like 40%...

[Troglodyte]

We're growing a garden after a three year hiatus.

We're starting small and then, next year it'll probably be bigger.

A problem we have is that while we have a nice sized back yard, it's got a couple of mature trees that block a lot of light and the rear portion gets soggy. We also have two dogs and no fence, so they're put on run lines to do their business and hang out occassionally. This puts a crimp on where and how large of a garden we can have. My wife's also itching to raise some chickens... but I don't know how that'll go since we're already at the city limit for allowed pets (4).

We're fairly frugal - okay, I'm cheap - but I grew up in the country and around farms and gardens.

When we got married we had a little garden at our first house. I had more zucchini, bell peppers and tomatoes than we knew what to do with... and that was just with a handful of plants. I'd pick the zucchini daily and they'd still be as big as my forearm.

This year we're going to try some pumpkins and strawberries - at our older sons request.

We'll probably do a fall crop. Broccoli and maybe Romaine or Boston lettuce or some such.

I'd really like to have some rhubarb and asparagus, but they take two years before you can harvest... and they ain't cheap.

It'd be nice to have some berry bushes; black berry, blue berry and such. If we didn't have the huge elms, I'd plant a couple fruit trees.

Our long term goal is to own a hobby farm, at least 10 to 15 acres and get as self sufficient as possible. My wife wants animals, a horse, donkey and maybe some goats or sheep and of course, chickens. I want an orchard. Apples, cherries, peaches and nuts... pecans and hazelnuts especially.

I am what I call a pessimistic optimist. I hope for the best but want to prepare for the worst. And I'm not liking what I'm seeing on the near horizon. We like fresh fruits and veggies and we're frugal as I said anyway. But I also like the idea of hopefully having a store of food so that if there is any crisis, even if only for a brief period, we're not having to pay exorbitant prices or wait in long lines or do without. People assume that the worst cannot happen here in the US. Why run the risk?

[Ray Moscow]

How many of you have considered growing your own food, for the first time, due to the economic troubles?

This article really inspired me:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/real_food/article6098277.ece

I either want to do a square foot garden (http://www.amazon.com/All-New-Square-Foot-Gardening/dp/1591862027/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240364770&sr=8-1) or container gardening until we buy a house of our own.

The thought of being more self-sufficient is strangely appealing to me all of a sudden. I have realized that if for some reason we either couldn't afford food, or didn't have someone to buy food from, we would starve! Even if those situations never come about, it is still a major plus to have fresh veggies on hand. It would be also nice to have a hobby other than video games. :)

The past few years we've gotten more and more into vegetable gardening.

It's still not very economical, though, at least not on a small scale. It's just interesting and fun -- and healthy.

[Troglodyte]

It's still not very economical, though, at least not on a small scale. It's just interesting and fun -- and healthy.

I'd say it depends upon how small - or large - your garden is and what you're growing.

Figure that one tomato plant, if thriving well can probably produce ten pounds of tomatoes at least. Estimate that at a store you're going to spend at least around $1 a pound for a tomato. If you buy tomato seeds, you'll get a couple dozen or more seeds for at least a $1-3 (depending upon variety and patent branding (genetic hybridization and modification a la Monsanto, etc.) If you buy them by the seedling tray, you'll get 6 for around the same price.

Dirt is cheap. I don't use any of those fancy name brand miracle grows or such. A 40 lb. bag of topsoil is $1-2 dollars. Humus and manure are around the same price. If one has a yard, keeping a compost pile isn't too hard or expensive.

Where it can get costly is what one decides to grow and how one decides to grow it. There's also the labor involved. Staying to the simple basics will keep costs down.

Other than finding railroad ties or landscape timbers on Freecycle or Craigslist, building a raised bed or contained/container garden will automatically increase initial cost outlay. $25 for two hours with a rental tiller and I'll have a classic row garden this weekend. I have some plastic landscape edging I bought a while back with a gift card. I may or may not use it.

I'm going to guesstimate that our total outlay for this garden after seeds, seedlings, peat pots, topsoil and tiller rental will probably be $50.

Three years ago we grew a plot about 10-15 feet by 15-20 feet. In it we had 2 zucchini and 2 yellow squash, 4 bell pepper and 6 tomato (Roma and some larger variety), and broccoli. I'd bought 2x4 weld wire fencing and rebar to make a fence as well as chicken wire - derned rabbits. If not for the rabbits I'd also have had cucumbers, green beans and sunflowers... but they never let my seedlings grow. That garden produced for 3 or 4 months. We don't have a deep freezer nor canning supplies. Had we, I'd have been storing much of it. As it was, we had more than we could give away and use ourselves.

One 6 pack of broccoli was no more than $3 and we got 6 large heads that would still produce smaller heads after we'd harvested the main ones. So, in effect we got 9-10 heads out of 6. How much is a head of broccoli at the store?

Zucchini is at least around $1 a pound, whole and fresh. Same for bell peppers and tomatoes.

If you're able to can or freeze, the costs go down even more over the course of the year.

Just about every week I buy one or two cans of diced tomatoes at the store, not to mention one or two fresh tomatoes. As a Cajun, I can typically use a bell pepper a week or more if given the opportunity when cooking.

Growing your own tomatoes, you can make your own diced/stewed tomatoes and tomato sauce or what have you. For me, that's $3-4 or so each week alone. X 52 weeks, that's $150 for a $50 outlay for a garden with 6 tomato plants.

Gardening doesn't have to be expensive unless you let it. Using craigslist and freecycle or garage sales can reduce outlay costs for gardening materials. Some cities offer free compost and mulch - our city does (you just bring a truck and/or your own bucket and shovel). Staying with cheaper, simpler plants instead of fancy hybrids or varieties reduces costs. Also, if you're up for the challenge, buying non-engineered seeds - mostly heirloom - will enable you to save your own seeds, thus reducing the number of new seeds you have to buy yearly. That's one of the big things behind the hybrids. Diesease resistance and growth are part of it, but the seed companies want you to continue buying from them, so they tinker with the genes and sterilize them, also placing a patent on them so that even if you did/could save them, it's supposed to be "illegal" to keep the seeds or swap them. These genetically tinkered seeds are especially big business against the major farmers. It used to be that farmers would keep some of their corn or wheat back to plant a new crop the following year. Now, the farmers have to go yearly to the big seed corps like Monsanto to get their seeds. That can be a hefty yearly outlay.

[David B]

I haven't got a garden - they are hard to find four floors up.

My dad, in the last few decades, has adopted a high value low maintenance approach to gardening for food.

Apple and pear trees, for cooking and eating.

And soft fruit - a glut of raspberries, gooseberries and redcurrents in season, and a surplus for freezing for consumption throughout the year.

I'm looking forward to seeing how sister Cath's garden is doing - should get there tomorrow.

David

[Daynna]

Now it's becoming apparent that I know nothing about starting a garden. :) I'm going to try anyway, on a small scale, just to test the waters and get a little experience. I also want to learn how to store and can veggies so that nothing is wasted.

I have a friend at work who is an "urban homesteader." She is going to build a chicken house and have chickens. She also wants goats. She sent this link to me the other day:
http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2009/04/07/broody-butts-2/

I also want to buy this book (http://www.amazon.com/Storeys-Basic-Country-Skills-Self-Reliance/dp/1580171990/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2RIY740PN1TPL&colid=2OZI9KW2XJFOL), to see what else I can do for myself!

Thanks Trog, you really gave me a lot to think about.

[Troglodyte]

No prob. I'm a novice gardener. Anything I know is thanks to my mother and grandfather. They have the green thumbs. My mother got her degree in agronomy.

I don't know if we'll be renewing the subscription, but you may want to look into Countryside magazine. We've gotten it for years. It's a great mag, full of stories and tips, even for people testing the water, dreaming or locked into an apartment with little to no space.

http://www.countrysidemag.com/

[David B]

Daynna, you shouldn't need to grow greens, as they can be found in the wild - apparently even in Pittsburgh.

http://birchcenter.blogspot.com/2009/04/wild-edible-video-and-upcoming-walks.html

If I was going to start a garden, then if I thought I was going to stay around for a few years then fruit trees would be a high priority.

After that, tomatoes, herbs, raspberries and strawberries. Early and late fruiting varieties.

David

[Troglodyte]

I've been told by someone in the know that when buying strawberry packs, don't buy everbearing. Sorry, don't recall the reason why, but taste and size may have something to do with it.

[Christina]

Now it's becoming apparent that I know nothing about starting a garden. :) I'm going to try anyway, on a small scale, just to test the waters and get a little experience.

I didn't know anything when I started either so that shouldn't stop you. It's not very hard to get up to speed. One thing to remember is that every bit of work you do before planting will save you lots of work in the long run. I agree that it doesn't have to be expensive to get yourself going. Prepping your soil is very important and you'll want to think about things like the sun/shade distribution throughout the day so that you don't fry anything or shade out things that need a lot of sun.

It takes a lot of plants to feed even just one person all season so unless you have a whole lot of room you might want to start off with the veggies that you like the most. I've tried almost everything for fun but now I stick to basics that I like the best and eat all the time like lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers, eggplant, loads of basil for pesto and lots of other herbs. We have lots of fruit trees too - apples, peaches, nectarines, apricots, plums, lemons, tangerines and a pear and persimmon tree that are too young to fruit yet. Both blackberries and any form of mint will take over and be almost impossible to eradicate if you change your mind about their location. Some strawberries will also send out runners and multiply fast. If you don't want that you can plant them in strawberry pots.

I love working outside in the garden. It's about the most relaxing thing I can think of, even when it's hard work.

[Cath B]

I'm going to make more of an effort to get my leeks to grow bigger and better this year - worth doing as they are very expensive to buy.

I'm starting them off inside in biodegradable pots with toilet roll middles on the top to help them grow white and solid. Then I'll plant them out as they are in a well watered channel.

[Ray Moscow]

I'm going to guesstimate that our total outlay for this garden after seeds, seedlings, peat pots, topsoil and tiller rental will probably be $50.



I'd say ours will be 10 times that, for a small garden. And we compost everything, but it's still not enough.

Here in the UK, gardening is expensive. But it's still fun, and it's healthy (lots of exercise, and high-quality food at the harvest).

[Daynna]

I'm looking more to the future rather than at trying to save money right now. I want to have a little experience with growing my own food. Nearly all food in the US is trucked across country instead of grown locally. I need to learn about composting and preserving too. These are all valuable skills to have, IMO.

We planted some of our stuff too early so will be hauling it into the garage every night it gets chilly out. I also check for growing produce every day (it's been 3 days). I'm such a noob. :)

[Ada]

I've been told by someone in the know that when buying strawberry packs, don't buy everbearing. Sorry, don't recall the reason why, but taste and size may have something to do with it.
Some people call the m neverbearing. They bear fruits for longer time, but there is not many of them. It is more like hunting for strawberries than picking them.

:-) Ada

[Garrett]

The thought of being more self-sufficient is strangely appealing to me all of a sudden.
For some reason that made me think of Scarlett O'Hara after she frantically dug for roots.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xAZaRRCUfQg/SGf3tVsG7gI/AAAAAAAAAGU/_BoKYKt4bDs/s320/never%2Bhungry%2Bvert.jpg

[Ray Moscow]

I've been told by someone in the know that when buying strawberry packs, don't buy everbearing. Sorry, don't recall the reason why, but taste and size may have something to do with it.
Some people call the m neverbearing. They bear fruits for longer time, but there is not many of them. It is more like hunting for strawberries than picking them.

:-) Ada

Our strawberries (planted a couple of years ago) are in bloom. We'll have some fruit soon.

Our (new) apple trees also bloomed, but the nursery people advised not to let them fruit the first year, so we (sadly) pulled off the blooms.

[Troglodyte]

I've been told by someone in the know that when buying strawberry packs, don't buy everbearing. Sorry, don't recall the reason why, but taste and size may have something to do with it.
Some people call the m neverbearing. They bear fruits for longer time, but there is not many of them. It is more like hunting for strawberries than picking them.

:-) Ada

Our strawberries (planted a couple of years ago) are in bloom. We'll have some fruit soon.

Our (new) apple trees also bloomed, but the nursery people advised not to let them fruit the first year, so we (sadly) pulled off the blooms.

Probably to let the tree build up strength. Fruiting uses up a lot of resources for a tree. Waiting a year allows your young trees to develop- besides-which, I've seen some fruit trees so heavily laden with fruit that the branches can barely take it. I'd suspect that holding off the first year also helps build up the branches to take the weight of the fruit.

It's a similar concept for growing good melons and some squash. Want great pumpkins? I've read that if you want to grow really good pumpkins, you should only allow one pumpkin to grow per plant, otherwise the plant divides the energy up.

As well, I've also been told that in growin rhubarb and asparagus timing is a factor and you need to wait and not harvest the first year.

[Troglodyte]

I'm going to guesstimate that our total outlay for this garden after seeds, seedlings, peat pots, topsoil and tiller rental will probably be $50.



I'd say ours will be 10 times that, for a small garden. And we compost everything, but it's still not enough.

Here in the UK, gardening is expensive. But it's still fun, and it's healthy (lots of exercise, and high-quality food at the harvest).

Is that a yearly outlay?!

Are you in the country or in the city with a small yard?

As it happens, we may have to go out and buy a couple of trays of seedlings. A couple of our plants have died, either by birds or rabbits.

I still need to plant my okra seeds and onion sets.

The zucchini is growing strong already - it's a fairly hardy plant.

[Notta]

Trog, do you know how to tell when a person has no friends?




When they have to buy zucchini at the market.

[Christina]

... asparagus timing is a factor and you need to wait and not harvest the first year.

I love asparagus and I want to learn to grow it but first I have to figure out where I can put in more garden space without doing some significant terracing on my back hill. That's never a great idea in an area that gets the kind of rainfall that we do. Luckily we're on a granite spur but the mud on top of the rock could all slide and that hill supports a deck and one side of the pool is dug into the rock at the top.

I think I'm going to plant some vegetables in one of the flower beds along the driveway because it's big and sunny and there's enough room for some squash and pumpkins. Maybe I'll plant some corn too just because it will look nice with the others veggies in the fall when the flowers have mostly died back.

[Troglodyte]

Trog, do you know how to tell when a person has no friends?




When they have to buy zucchini at the market.

Heh, oh dear yes.

We grew zuchinni several years ago for the first time. I think we had two zucc. plants and two yellow squash ones. We had squash coming out of our ears. I couldn't give enough away. I would harvest some zucchini and the very next day harvest more that almost literally were bigger than my forearm but had been "too small" to harvest the day before!!!

[BWE]

it's important to get em small. Ten minutes later and you can't pick them up. :)

[Notta]

Trog, do you know how to tell when a person has no friends?




When they have to buy zucchini at the market.

Heh, oh dear yes.

We grew zuchinni several years ago for the first time. I think we had two zucc. plants and two yellow squash ones. We had squash coming out of our ears. I couldn't give enough away. I would harvest some zucchini and the very next day harvest more that almost literally were bigger than my forearm but had been "too small" to harvest the day before!!!My very favorite zucchini recipe is for a zucchini-chocolate cake. It begins, "Take two large zucchini and grate them. Reserve two cups of grated zucchini. Throw the rest away..."

[Christina]

When I was running the shelter people would bring us enormous zucchinis that they had let grow for months past the time that any normal person would pick them. They were inedible. Next to fruitcake after xmas they were the most popular food item that came from individuals.

ETA: I don't even bother with them anymore because a neighbor gives me more than I want anyway. I grow pumpkins and gourds just for fun. I may do more interesting kinds of squash this year if I can find the room.

[Cath B]

I'm now cropping my asparagus about once every five days, sorrel as I want it, rhubarb in profusion. I've given a lot of rhubarb away.

If it's wet tomorrow I'll maybe make rhubarb jam - otherwise I'll be weeding.

[Christina]

I've been eating salad greens for weeks but for some reason my spinach is bolting early. It hasn't been all that hot so I'm not sure why. The rest of the lettuce is doing fine, the tomatoes are sulking from lack of heat and I won't see cucumbers for weeks yet.

[Cath B]

My cucumbers are just coming through.

David B planted them!

[Christina]

We have our first peach now:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g132/KGpictures/Flowers/Peach.jpg

My cucumbers are doing well but I won't see any for a while yet, I'm still getting a salad a day worth of lettuce and spinach, the basil is coming along nicely and the tomatoes are really getting going now that it's hot out. The corn and melon are just coming up and I planted the carrots a bit late so they still haven't germinated. It will be a while before there will be anything but lettuce and herbs to harvest.

[Cath B]

I bought a couple of small globe artichoke plants at the Rotary Club sale at the weekend.

I won't get any till next year though as the plants are stronger if you nip all the globes in the bud in the first year.

My courgettes have germinated well and are now big enough to be planted out.

[Cath B]

Planting out today.

Brussell sprouts and cauliflower with radish and lettuce seeds planted as catch crops.

I bunged a piece of rhubarb in with each plant in accordance with local gardening lore.

Also some egg shell to increase the lime.

I bought two globe artichoke plants at the Rotary Club plant sale (a snip at 50p each) on Saturday and put in a load of home grown compost and chicken droppings since they're perrenials.

As I removed one of the plants from its pot most of the roots got detached! :eek:

So whether or not it takes remains to be seen.

[Christina]

I live in artichoke central so I don't plant any. You can get them for almost nothing at any farmers market or roadside farm stand. It's the same with brussel sprouts. It's an ag area so almost all produce is very cheap other than at chain stores.

How big do the asparagus plants get to be?

[Cath B]

During the sprouting season you need to keep cutting them back (and eating of course!) to encourage new spears. But from mid to late June you leave them to grow and strengthen their roots for the next season. They reach around three foot with beautiful, delicate, fern-like leaves which look great in a vase alone or with flowers.

Artichokes are luxury food hereabouts are hard to come by and cost the earth.

In winter I'll have to put lots of mulch on top of the plants to stop them getting killed by frost. In a hard winter that's a possibility even with mulching.

[Cath B]

I've got a good crop of apricots growing, but it's at the edge of their range here so they won't necessarily ripen well.

I'll just have to wait and see.