Summarizing the latest Torture memos/investigations

[rlogan]

Remember the outrage when the pictures of Abu Graihb were exposed?

Pictures of naked men, dogs, men hooded in stress positions, etc? Soldiers went to jail for that.

Remember Rumsfeld's "a few bad apples" denials, and Bush's "we don't torture, etc?


There are a slew of memorandums now released by virtue of a lawsuit against the government, plus a new senate report out, the red cross report, and others that lets us summarize this whole ugly chapter in U.S. history.

Shortly after 9/11 at the behest of the white house, inquiries were made with the SERE program, which was a training program designed to put military personell through the various tortures used by (for example) the communist chinese in North Korea to extract false "confessions" out of US soldiers for propaganda purposes. It was NOT a program having anything to do with intelligence collection.

The SERE people had no experience in intelligence collection. The program was expressly geared to prepare men for practices illegal under Geneva and other conventions against torture.

The white house ordered both the CIA and the Military, in their parallel prison systems, to adopt these practices, and ordered the justice department to create phony legal window-dressing to cover their asses for what they knew was illegal.

The white house was then busy creating phony propaganda against Saddam Hussein (forger niger uranium documents, false assertion of meetings between Al Qaeda and Iraq, etc.). The office in charge of that was the Office of Special Plans. Even the name demonstrates they planned to invade Iraq on false pretenses. Downing street memos confirmed that - we simply told British we were manufacturing the "intelligence".

And now, finally, you can google this all over the internet - they used torture to try extracting a false link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. That was apparently the most important driving motivation for its use.

It is inconceivable to most Americans, and despite it being now public information of the most sober, careful, and fully documented official inquiry - it will not be widely accepted that our government did exactly what the SERE program tortures were all about:

Torturing to extract false "confessions" (along with manufacturing other phony propaganda) in order to cover what was in fact a war of aggression - a war crime.

We sent people to prison who were following orders that came ultimately from our president. Nobody was saying what Obama is saying now when we were trying them, imprisoning them, and screeching about how horrific their actions were.

Instead now Obama is saying that the people who ordered the torture we imprisoned people for should be overlooked, and that anyone else who committed torture - well, they were following orders so we won't prosecute them.

What about pardons then for the people we already convicted? Nobody is calling for that, are they? We just convicted a sergeant for murder, and I do not see how this isn't true for the whole Iraq war of aggression.

The only thing that has changed since their convictions is that we see finally it was much more widespread, that it was ordered by our president - and it was specifically deployed to create false justifications for war crimes.

The disconnect is just incredible that we prosecuted soldiers for this with such fanfare and self-righteous "this is not America" fervor - but Obama is now saying oh shucks, let bygones be bygones, let's not enforce the law because that would be "retribution"

His attorney general is cooing on about how we are now going to live by the rule of law - except of course we're just not going to actually enforce it.


Remember the stupid "ticking time bomb" scenario they were using to justify torture? That was when they were busy torturing people in an effort to produce false confessions "justifying" war crimes.


Obama is now pretending the orders to torture were based on a sincere concern to protect the american people, and understandable after 9/11. The ticking time bomb excuse.

But that isn't why they were doing it. It was part of a multifacited program that was about creating false "intelligence" to justify war crimes, and I can't think of a more ghastly thing deserving of placing our president on trial for war crimes and making sure no president in the future ever consideres it.

And the way you do that is by meting out the same justice we did for the Japanese and German officials we found guilty of the same things.

[tjakey]

I have a small but fading hope that Bush & Co. will be held accountable. Two short discussions I had with co-workers today didn't help. The first was with a likable enough secretary who allowed as how Obama had better be pretty careful with security since, "there are Americans who don't like him." Odd, 8 years of Bush crimes and no one on the left hinted at assassinations, armed rebellion or civil war. Jail time? Sure. But the right, now? They talk treason as if they were patriots. And not just the far right loons like Rush, Newt and Beck, but mid-right people one would normally think of as not being that particularly loathsome.

The second was with my boss who is also normally a pretty good guy. But in his eyes the whole torture thing is stupid because, well, the people being tortured deserved it. I was a bit stunned. Somehow torturing prisoners has become acceptable. (So long as the tortured are brown skinned and don't speak English as a first language.)

Of course I could add that these are both "good, church going Christians" while I am the morals challenged atheist, but that doesn't make things any better. What ever small claim the US might have once had to being an enlightened, advanced and advancing culture was, I fear, permanently lost somewhere in the years since Reagen was elected.

[rlogan]

I think you pretty much have it nailed.

The problem is some high percentage of americans gets a sadistic pleasure out of torturing sand niggers. They are subhuman, along the lines of the KKK thinking of the past.

Our government has legitimized the modern day KKK - hate against muslims - and that sadistic streak is what really underlies the torture, not this preposterous "ticking time bomb" crap used as for a fig leaf.

[Lisa0315]

Hatred is human nature. I learned this lesson well at Christian Forums. Once the Conservatives had no one else to go after, they began infighting.

If America had no enemies, and we didn't for many years, then, we will turn on each other.

Look across the planet. There are humans hating and killing other humans everywhere, for land, for racial purity, for religion, for whatever reason.

Rising above the hatred...that is what this life is about in my opinion. We are all susceptible to it, but some lifestyles make one more susceptible such as hard-core fundamentalism of any religion or any belief system.

It might be the KKK or the neo-Nazis or a couple of kids killing their classmates. We have a heightened sense of people having done us wrong and a lowered sense of forgiveness.

Blame it on video games. Blame it on lenient parents. Blame it on hard-nosed parents. Blame it on society or psychological reasons. Blame it on religion.

Ultimately, there is a beast in all of us and under the right conditions that beast will come out in all of us.

Do you remember September 12, 2001? I was sitting at a breakroom table with some black co-workers. Another co-worker came into the building wearing one of those rag thingies on his head. He had never ever done this before. A lot of people got mad and the black co-workers began talking about Muslims. I said, "It would be soooo easy to fall into that trap, but we cannot do that or we become like those terrorists." Our HR said, "We do not care about politically correct today!" and made the guy take off his headgear. He left the company a short time later, and I honestly do not know if he quit or was fired.

It is a natural inclination, I think, something we have to constantly be on guard for and repress within ourselves. No one is immune. No one.

Lisa

[tjakey]

Okay, I'll blame it on religion...

[DMB]

Press Release today:

THE WORLD ORGANISATION AGAINST TORTURE

PRESS RELEASE

The Right to Know:
The World Organisation Against Torture Calls on the United States and European Governments to Investigate Cases of Torture and Ill-Treatment

Geneva, 29th April 2009

The World Organisation Against Torture (OMCT) welcomes the decision of President Barak Obama to declassify and release information confirming that senior officials in the Bush Administration authorized extreme interrogation techniques, including water-boarding, on suspected terrorists in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks and calls for a full investigation of these facts and prosecution of those suspected of having committed or otherwise participated in, or authorised, whether expressly or tacitly, torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.

The documents released show beyond doubt that United States Government officials authorised torture and other forms of ill-treatment in flagrant violation of the country’s unconditional commitments under international law, including the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment and article 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights which have both been ratified by the United States. Under these treaties, not only torture, but also other forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment are strictly forbidden at all times, including in the fight against terrorism and public emergencies threatening the life of the nation. The recourse to such unlawful treatment amounts to a wanton abandonment of values espoused by both the United States and other Member States of the United Nations in the aftermath of the Second World War. OMCT recalls that hundreds of detainees have moreover been denied their right to have access to the judicial guarantees essential for the protection of their basic rights, including their right not to be subjected to ill-treatment.

In the light of the recent important disclosures on the question of torture and ill-treatment, and in application of the strict conditions laid down by international law, OMCT urges the United States Government to launch prompt, effective, independent and impartial investigations into the alleged torture and ill-treatment as well as other human rights violations that took place during the previous administration. The result of such investigations must not only be made public, but criminal prosecutions must moreover be brought against the suspected perpetrators of ill-treatment and, in case they are found guilty, a penalty proportionate to their crimes should be imposed. Furthermore, the victims concerned must be granted adequate redress for their suffering, including rehabilitation for physical and psychological sequelae of the ill-treatment, as required by the aforementioned treaties.

At the European level, both the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly and the European Parliament have in difficult circumstances carried out welcome inquiries into the cooperation by European States with the United States with regard to secret CIA flights and secret detention centres. These investigations showed that several European countries had either cooperated with the United States or tolerated its clandestine, illegal activities. This is in stark contrast with the fact that Europe prides itself on placing human rights as one of its founding values alongside democracy. OMCT welcomes in this respect that, in its Conclusions adopted on 29 April 2009, the European Union Council confirmed “that the promotion and protection of the right not to be submitted to torture is a priority of the EU’s human rights policy” adding that “[t]o work towards the prevention and eradication of all forms of torture and ill treatment within the EU and worldwide is a strongly held policy view of all EU member states”. The European Union Council further inter alia recalled “the EU’s firm position to fully comply with obligations in respect of torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, in the fight against terrorism, in particular the absolute prohibition of torture and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment”.

In the light of the strong legal and political commitments in the field of human rights of the 27 Member States of the European Union and the 47 Member States of Council of Europe, the OMCT urges also these States to start prompt, effective, independent and impartial investigations into their alleged collaboration with, or toleration of, the US illegal activities within European territory and to bring criminal prosecutions against the officials suspected of having committed, or being complicit in, torture and ill-treatment or other related illegal activities.

The world has a right to know the full extent of the illegal activities that took place both inside and outside the United States and Europe in order to prevent such activities from happening in the future and also to ensure that the victims concerned be granted adequate redress for the wrongs committed. Failing such investigations, the most fundamental rights of the human being risk being seriously eroded, an erosion that could in turn have devastating consequences for peace and security in the world. Both the United States and the Member States of the European Union are based on the fundamental principles of democracy, the rule of law and human rights. By assuming full accountability for their actions or inactions, they would send a strong message to the world that they take their legal duties in the human rights field seriously.

The OMCT will continue to closely follow the legal development in this respect in both the United States and Europe.

Contact: Mr. Eric Sottas, Secretary General, OMCT; Tel. +41 22 809 49 39

[Lisa0315]

Hell Yeah! This could mean some folks have to go before an International Court!

Lisa

[DMB]

In theory. But I doubt very much that anything will happen. There will be a political stitch-up.

[rlogan]

Ultimately, there is a beast in all of us and under the right conditions that beast will come out in all of us.


I think this is why we are not seeing the prosecutions.

All the bullshit aside, just far too many people are OK with torture.



The whole asinine "War on Terror" has got to be killed. From its illogical premise springs forth every evil thing we are doing.

Glad to see the world organization with such unequivocal statements.