Chickens and gardens

[David B]

I arrived at Cath's today, and have seen her chickens - pics to follow when it's not raining. Seen all her work, too, and her compost heaps.

Fortunately her garden is divided into two pieces - the chickens are making a bit of a mess in one part of it. Lots of herbs and plants have been ripped apart, or destroyed by the birds lying on them. The salad burnet in particular has been fully cropped, and the hyssop, primroses and wild strawberries.

The blossom is looking good:)

David

[Troglodyte]

My understanding about chickens and gardens is that while they're certainly good to have in them, to reduce the bug population, they must be managed and not allowed total free range, otherwise you run into the problem your friend is having.

[Brianna]

Chickens are good for garden prep. :D

[Zygote]

They're fine in an established, hardy garden as well. They eat bugs and drop fertilizer. But they're hell on anything sprouting.

[Zygote]

Chickens are good for garden prep. :D

Have you ever seen pictures of a "chicken tractor"?

It's a wire mesh covered frame that has a top and sides but no bottom. It's large enough to hold a small flock of chickens but small enough to be moved (could have wheels on one end). It keeps the chickens in one place where they scratch the surface of the soil, eat weed sprouts and bugs and leave nitrogen rich fertilizer. When they've done what they can for one section, the "tractor" is dragged to a fresh piece of ground.

It's just for day use, because it isn't predator proof.

[Troglodyte]

Yup. There are other versions of it that can be made for permanent use. A mobile coop. My wife and a neighbor are both interested in getting chickens and we'd both build a mobile coop.

Mobile coops and chicken tractors are not only good for the chickens to have fresh food, but also so they're not continually stepping in their fresh droppings like they would in a stationary coop or pen. The hope then being to keep the chickens and your yard healthier.

[David B]

Cath's chickens.

She can explain what crosses they are, later. They are egg chickens, and she has only four.

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp275/dble_photo/queensferryandgarden035.jpg

My niece, Jenny, is feeding them.

David

[Cath B]

More chick pics.

http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt291/CatherineMB/davidspics009.jpg

The reds are Rhode Island Red x Light Sussex and the blacks are Rhode Island Red x Plymouth Rock.

They are fun, fun, fun!

Should start laying in two to four weeks.

[Cath B]

I'm interested in seeing the effect of the chicks on the garden ecosystem.

I think the lawn is large enough to cope with them free - ranging.

I think the plants they've been assaulting have tough enough root system to cope with a little abuse and when it's a bit damper I hope to dig them up and reestablish them somewhere safer.

[Christina]

It will be fun to watch how it goes. I have to admit that I think that their noise would get to me after a while but they're pretty to look at.

[Goldie]

Hens aren't generally noisy, except after laying an egg. If she has no roosters they'll be very quiet.

Nice looking pullets. Soon, it'd be like finding treasure. The pullet eggs are really small and ...dare I say... CUTE!!!!!

[David B]

It will be fun to watch how it goes. I have to admit that I think that their noise would get to me after a while but they're pretty to look at.

They don't make a lot of noise, at least in the couple of days I've been here. It's the cocks, I think, that do make noise.

For real noise, but prettier birds, peacocks would be hard to beat.

Bloody hell, they are loud.

I went on a meditation residential course once, where there were peacocks in the garden.

David

[Brianna]

My friend has raised chickens on her land for about 15 years. :) She has all sorts of little pens and weird things going on.

Rhode Island reds and bardrocks are my favorite.

[BWE]

My chickens have free rein in the garden all winter but they're out from a month ago till october.

They ruin it.

[Cath B]

Rhode Island reds and bardrocks are my favorite.

I'm very pleased with the birds we've got. They were bred by a smallholder living about two miles away so very local.

But some time I'd like to get some traditional Scottish varieties - Scots Dumpy (http://www.scotsdumpy.org.uk/index.shtml)and or Scots Grey (http://www.scotsgrey.co.uk/).

[Brianna]

Rhode Island reds and bardrocks are my favorite.

I'm very pleased with the birds we've got. They were bred by a smallholder living about two miles away so very local.

But some time I'd like to get some traditional Scottish varieties - Scots Dumpy (http://www.scotsdumpy.org.uk/index.shtml)and or Scots Grey (http://www.scotsgrey.co.uk/).

Yes, they are lovely ... I like colorful chickens.

Every breed has their own personality. :) some roosters are just downright HORRIBLE. my friend got a beak into the back her hand once. She forgave him for protecting his hens. I think he wound up in the soup anyway though.

[Garrett]

^lol

my brother raised a chicken as a pet once. She behaved very different from the other chickens, would follow him around, didn't have the 'personal space' zone of the others, would jump on his lap and so on.

[Cath B]

Our chickens will jump on laps too. Especially when they think there are titbits on offer.

[Cath B]

Every breed has their own personality. :) some roosters are just downright HORRIBLE. my friend got a beak into the back her hand once. She forgave him for protecting his hens. I think he wound up in the soup anyway though.

A friend of mine who kept poultry was also a child-minder.

One day a little girl was pecked by the cockerel.

So her husband killed it (after the child had gone home), they made soup and made a point of giving some to the little girl the next time she was there.

[LoneWolf]

This thread is giving me a hankerin' for some KFC.:evil:

[Christina]

I saw this guy wandering along the side of the road one day. I assumed that he was lost. Does anyone know what kind he is? I know that we have wild turkeys but I'm clueless as to what they look like so I figured he's a regular rooster.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g132/KGpictures/Roosters.jpg

[Brianna]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Hahn_Deutsches_Reichshuhn_(Zwergform).JPG

almost looks the same

Salmon Faverolle Rooster

[Cath B]

A question for other chicken owners - have any of you cooked for them? (And yes, the for is an important word here :D)

Our chickens love layers pellets and otherwise enjoy generally grazing. They also enjoyed some spaghetti on a rare occasion that there was some left over.

Two days ago I experimented by cooking up potato peelings and cauliflower trimmings for them. They picked a bit up and then disdainfully discarded it! Any ideas as to why this didn't go down well?

[Cath B]

Some damp weather over the past couple of days.

So David B and I moved the roots of the salad burnet and marjoram to the chicken free part of the garden and hope they'll soon recover.

[Christina]

Salmon Faverolle Rooster

They sure do. Thanks, Brianna.

[Brianna]

A question for other chicken owners - have any of you cooked for them? (And yes, the for is an important word here :D)

Our chickens love layers pellets and otherwise enjoy generally grazing. They also enjoyed some spaghetti on a rare occasion that there was some left over.

Two days ago I experimented by cooking up potato peelings and cauliflower trimmings for them. They picked a bit up and then disdainfully discarded it! Any ideas as to why this didn't go down well?

Maybe it was the type of things you cooked. The chickens like the worms best.
My friend's chicken's rule over her compost bin like buzzards.

[Daynna]

Get a two-butt hen so you can get twice the eggs for less coop space. :)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2402569.ece

[Goldie]

A question for other chicken owners - have any of you cooked for them? (And yes, the for is an important word here :D)

Our chickens love layers pellets and otherwise enjoy generally grazing. They also enjoyed some spaghetti on a rare occasion that there was some left over.

Two days ago I experimented by cooking up potato peelings and cauliflower trimmings for them. They picked a bit up and then disdainfully discarded it! Any ideas as to why this didn't go down well?

Well.... don't be grossed out but they really like cooked eggs shell and all. I crush them so they are unrecognisable and they won't start eating their own eggs. That is what I did with excess eggs. Don't feed them potato peels or mushrooms. It can give them intestinal problems.
Black oil sunflower seeds are a good treat especially during the moult. That is when they need extra protein.

Sometimes they love things and sometime they won't touch them. They usually like left over pasta and bread products. Mine liked strawberries...but mostly cooked eggs and sunflower seeds.
Crackers were great treats for hand feeding.

[Brianna]

Chickens start eating their own eggs when they are bored as well. As long as they have digging to do, they will stay out of their eggs. It has nothing to do with them being smart enough to recognize them as eggs.

[Cath B]

Thanks folk!

Having read your post, Goldie, I'm glad they had the good sense to reject the cooked potato peelings I offered. Though I've just googled and found this (http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/398369) on answersbag which suggests opinion is divided and the facts uncertain.

I offered them some celery and cheese sauce yesterday. They ran around the garden with the celery hanging out of their mouths trying to grab it from each other lol. Later I found they'd eaten the sauce but discarded at least some of the celery.

I reckon that mine have such a large range of foodstuffs available in the garden and so many interesting places to explore that they can afford to be really picky about kitchen leftovers. But they enjoy pellets as their staple.

I'm a little uncertain about eggshells, inclined to see it as a mild form of cannibalism and hence potentially unsound. However, they do have some (cooked and crushed) on offer as my daughter (their owner) had read that this was a good move and she's the chicken boss. I'm not sure whether or not they've ever eaten any. There may be enough calcium rich odds and ends kicking around the garden without them needing to.

[Brianna]

A lot of animals will eat their afterbirth. As long as the eggs aren't fertilized... that is exactly what shells are.

[Cath B]

A lot of animals will eat their afterbirth. As long as the eggs aren't fertilized... that is exactly what shells are.

Only mammals can eat their own afterbirth because the afterbirth is the placenta.*

Certainly owls and other birds of prey will eat their siblings if they get a bit peckish. Owlet hatchings are staggered and the larger siblings can eat the smaller ones.

But in other species, including chickens, the eggs are not incubated until there is a clutch and the chicks should all be born together. I'm not sure about chickens and ducks but blue tits baby birds which die in the nests are not generally eaten by the parents but are dumped some distance away from the nest.

In species where cannibalism is not inherent I suspect that inducing cannibalism may be Asking for Trouble - not in one or very many individual cases, but rather in the long run -as has happened with people in Papua New Guinea and with cows fed on remains of other cows thus leaving them prone to BSE.

*Removes pedant's cap here.

[Brianna]

A lot of animals will eat their afterbirth. As long as the eggs aren't fertilized... that is exactly what shells are.

Only mammals can eat their own afterbirth because the afterbirth is the placenta.*

Certainly owls and other birds of prey will eat their siblings if they get a bit peckish. Owlet hatchings are staggered and the larger siblings can eat the smaller ones.

But in other species, including chickens, the eggs are not incubated until there is a clutch and the chicks should all be born together. I'm not sure about chickens and ducks but blue tits baby birds which die in the nests are not generally eaten by the parents but are dumped some distance away from the nest.

In species where cannibalism is not inherent I suspect that inducing cannibalism may be Asking for Trouble - not in one or very many individual cases, but rather in the long run -as has happened with people in Papua New Guinea and with cows fed on remains of other cows thus leaving them prone to BSE.

*Removes pedant's cap here.

I don't think it is something you want to encourage but like I said, I don't think it is something to be avoided either. Sometimes chickens will eat their own eggs if they are bored, but I don't think they will get in in the habit of eating the eggs if the shells aren't ground down. They don't' actually eat the yolks, they just peck at the shells as far as i know. I am not a chicken expert though.

[Goldie]

Chickens can and will eat their own eggs... all of them. It is a habit theyt get into. If you raise very many chickens, you'll eventually get one that eats any and all eggs. Chicken can be cannibalistic... look it up.

However, feeding them eggs, ground up... shell and all, will be just fine and healthy for them. If you hand one a piece of cooked chicken I'll guarantee they'll grab and run. They like meat / bugs/ high protein stuff.
Layer pellets do have everything they need, (some suppliment with oyster shell) but durring the moult many birders feel that feeding them dog food / cat food or, like me, black oil sunflower seeds is a good idea because of the protein. Mine grew their feathers back so much more quickly with a suppliment of sunflower seeds.
But you won't have to worry about that this year.
BTW: My birds were free range and very picky too.

My friend, Patrick is an expert birder, I learned a lot from him ...and I kept large, very healthy flocks for 5 or 6 yrs.

ETA: I've raised laying hens and meat birds...and while meat birds are very stupid, thney only live to about 12 weeks anyway, the laying hens are very smart. Don't underestimate them. They are no dummies.

Oh! and if they get a hold of a mouse or snake in the hen house (Often after the eggs)...all you'll see the next day is a bloodspot on the wall / floor. They kill and EAT them.

[Cath B]

Chickens can and will eat their own eggs... all of them. It is a habit theyt get into. If you raise very many chickens, you'll eventually get one that eats any and all eggs. Chicken can be cannibalistic... look it up.

Were their wild ancestors? I'm not implying they weren't - I honestly don't know.


... black oil sunflower seeds is a good idea because of the protein. Mine grew their feathers back so much more quickly with a suppliment of sunflower seeds.

Interesting. I was wondering myself if a handful of sunflower seeds once in a while might be appreciated. Some builder's putty left lying around was soon wolfed down - I imagine they liked the linseed oil.

BTW: My birds were free range and very picky too.

I told a friend who keeps loads of free range chickens about them rejecting my cooked veg scraps. She said I should limit their grain supply. I've got mixed views about that. In a way I'd like to as I'm very keen on sourcing local foodstuffs which the layer's pellets aren't (though they are organic).

OTOH I think their health and egg production might be better with unlimited grain.


Oh! and if they get a hold of a mouse or snake in the hen house (Often after the eggs)...all you'll see the next day is a bloodspot on the wall / floor. They kill and EAT them.


Scary chickens! Well I suppose that's what you get if you keep dinosaurs!

I leave the coop open all day but have never spotted any other birds or mammals trying to eat the pellets. I guess they're nervous of chicken repercussions.

[Zygote]

We turned the chickens loose on the "compost" heap when I was a kid. It never achieved compost status, but was a way to keep biodegradable stuff out of the waste stream. Meat, veggie peelings, etc all went in. The chickens loved cooked chicken, or any other protein they could get their beaks on.

They could dismantle a potato bug (one of those critters that looks like a 2 inch long ant) in mere seconds, chasing each other around for all the tasty bits.

[Cath B]

They could dismantle a potato bug (one of those critters that looks like a 2 inch long ant) in mere seconds, chasing each other around for all the tasty bits.

Don't think we get them in the UK.

I absent-mindedly left the gate to the veggie garden open today and the chickens followed me in!

Fortunately my daughter was nearby to entice them to return from whence they came.

[Goldie]

The right breed of chicken will make great pets. Bumpy had her "Spanky" that loved Bumpy so much. The bird could hear that girl across the property and come RUNNING!
Bumpy could be gone a week...or two...and Spanky would be all the happier to see her. It's not like Bumpy raised her any differently. Spanky just took to her as a very young chick. She was just different... braver than the other chicks and wanting Bumpy's attention.

I wouldn't worry that they are too picky... keep the layer pellets handy because they have everything they need. The rest are treats...just treats. Is there a good source of small gravel available for them? If not you may need to buy a small bag of grit.

Yes...hungry chickens will eat almost anything...but you don't want them hungry, you want happy, healthy layers.
I think it's sweet that you care enough to find out what is best.
That is how I met one of my best friends... looking for an expert on chickens. I was very fortunate to find someone who raised them for a living (selling eggs, chicks, breeds) and I was a member of his awesome web site. (Unfortunately gone now) I got to know all kinds of birders all over the world. I learned more about raising birds than hobbiest need know, but I was able to save a few chickens because of my knowledge.
I had so many birds at one point, I could have gone commercial... and with that many birds, you get to see just about everything...every scenerio.
I miss having them soooo much!
When we finally settle again, we'll definitely keep chickens. I'll try to keep it down to 30...but its hard.

I think it's great for kids, if they are into it. It would be cool, after a while if you could get a sweet roo and allow a hen to go broody and raise some chicks. It's really something to see. But, that's another ball game. Let us know when you get your first egg. That is always SOOOOO cool. :)

[Zygote]

They could dismantle a potato bug (one of those critters that looks like a 2 inch long ant) in mere seconds, chasing each other around for all the tasty bits.

Don't think we get them in the UK.

http://images.whatsthatbug.com/images/potato_bug_jessica.jpg

This is a potato bug. In looking for an image, I found that they're also called jerusalem crickets.

[Christina]

We have those here too and they're the ugliest, most prehistoric looking creatures I've ever seen. They come out when the first rains start. Their only good point is that they're slow so that you can run away from them.

[Cath B]

Jerusalem crickets (genus Stenopelmatus) are a group of large (body length up to 69mm), flightless insects native to the western United States, along the Pacific Coast, and south into Mexico. Because of their large, human-like head, they are commonly called niño de la tierra (Spanish for "child of the earth"), Earth baby, cara de niño (Spanish for "child's face"), wó see ts'inii (Navajo for "skull insect"), or old bald-headed man. They are also often called potato bugs.

Despite their name, Jerusalem crickets are neither true crickets nor true bugs and they do not prefer potatoes for food. Active only at night, the insects use their strong mandibles to feed primarily on dead organic material but can also eat other insects.[1] Their highly adapted feet are used for burrowing beneath moist soil to feed on decaying root plants and tubers.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_cricket

My bold.

So apparently none in the UK I'm glad to say.

[Cath B]

So, we went away for a few days last Thursday, asking a neighbour to look after the chickens.

And, of course, she texted the next day to say:-

She'd found an egg.

The first egg

She was delighted, we were amused.

She found another one the next day and my daughter found one when we returned Sunday evening.

The end of the story?

Well not quite.

On Monday my daughter noticed a rustling in the undergrowth - a chicken.

When she emerged she found another egg there.

Later she found another one in the coop.

Later still I was wandering down the garden looking at the borders and thinking about the work I needed to do there when I found:-

A CLUTCH OF SIX EGGS :D

So, had one chicken been laying there for 6+ days or two or more laying there for two or three days? :dunno:

The eggs are delicious btw

[Cath B]

My chickens don't seem that bright.

I gave them some over ripe pear on a flowered dish this morning and they pecked at the painted flowers a bit before locating the pear!

I guess their ancestors didn't encounter painted china that often.

The guy who sold me the chickens told me, "chickens have got little brains, but ducks don't have any brain at all."

[Ray Moscow]

We would like to have a few chickens.

The problem is that we're gone so much, we'd have to get someone to look after them regularly. Most animals need daily (usually twice daily) attention and TLC.

[Cath B]

The mother and daughter who looked after are chickens are thinking about getting some themselves so were glad of a chance to get their hand in.

They seemed to think we were doing them a favour.

More and more people are keeping chickens here.

[Cath B]

The eggs are now appearing regularly, most are small but we've had three really big ones, notably elongated, which I boiled yesterday.

Two were double yolked and the largest was triple yoked!

I googled and found this here (http://www.poultry.allotment.org.uk/Chicken_a/Chicken_Egg_Excess/double-yolk-eggs.php):-

Most often double yolk eggs are laid by young hens of productive egg laying breeds. If you really like double yolked eggs then the highly productive breeds are more likely to reward you when young.

As they become more mature hens and their system settles down to correct production then the double yolks become less frequent to non-existent.

That figures!

[premjan]

IIRC male vs. female fertilized eggs have different shapes (one of them is longer). But I suppose these are not fertilized.

[Cath B]

No, no cockerel.

[Goldie]

Actually I don't believe shape has much to do with fertilization more with youth...then as the hens become old the egg shapes can get weird.

But...OH JOY! EGGS! I remember so well. Its like finding treasure. How exciting!!!! :)

YAY!

[Cath B]

Update on double yolkers- it seems as though two embryos in one egg can survive albeit rarely.

BBC news has a story about ducks here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/8323061.stm).

A Cornish duck farm is celebrating an unusual birth after two ducklings hatched from one egg.

The twins, who are doing well, appeared from the same shell within minutes of each other on Thursday.

My chickens stopped laying double yolkers a long while back. Egg production is dropping back to around two a day now.

[BWE]

Update on double yolkers- it seems as though two embryos in one egg can survive albeit rarely.

BBC news has a story about ducks here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/8323061.stm).

A Cornish duck farm is celebrating an unusual birth after two ducklings hatched from one egg.

The twins, who are doing well, appeared from the same shell within minutes of each other on Thursday.

My chickens stopped laying double yolkers a long while back. Egg production is dropping back to around two a day now.
We got a new pullet to replace one that got et by a coon and now they're laying like crazy. 3 hens making 4 eggs a day and sometimes 5. weird.

[Cath B]

We got a new pullet to replace one that got et by a coon and now they're laying like crazy. 3 hens making 4 eggs a day and sometimes 5. weird.

Impressive!

[BWE]

I'm wondering if they found a gamma ray burst or gor bit by a radioactive nightcrawler. :)

The other day the neighbor cat got waaay to ballsy and decided to have a chicken dinner.

1 cat /= 3 chickens out for blood.

Never forget that chickens are carnivores when they can. Mini t-rex's.

Poor cat. I had to run and open the gate to help it escape before they ate it. Now it has one of those endearing torn kitty ears.

[Cath B]

Our local cats find the chooks intrequing but have a healthy respect.

[Free in Freeport]

I read the title and thought David B was going to ask how to tend his eggplants :P

[Cath B]

I read the title and thought David B was going to ask how to tend his eggplants :P

I'd never thought of the chooks as eggplants but I s'pose it's one way of looking at them.

Thank you for opening my mind to encompass this bizarre perspective FB.

[Roo St. Gallus]

Heh...I got chickens in the first place because I was having problems with cutworms eating my roses and columbine. It was a spot infestation that was slowly growing in size each year. I had been ever so slowly reducing the amount of pesticides I'd been using on my garden over ten years....I did not want to return to using them. My sweetheart, who'd had chooks on her farm, recommended chickens.

I got three hens and, despite losing two of the three over the span of the next six months, they managed to terminate the cutworms. I raised more from chicks, and the resurrected small flock (3 birds) managed to completely sift and finish a compost pile that had been sitting and slowly growing for over twenty years. With that, and all the low-cost entertainment I was getting, I was hooked on chooks.

The following year, I still had my second set of three. I raised 16 chicks and kept four of them, bringing my flock to six. This year, I've dialed it back to 9 chicks (plus two foster chicks) and I'm keeping three of them, for a total of nine hens. My maximum is ten, according to my county permit. Once I made the step from three to six hens, my garden started showing the damage. Sword ferns have been nipped into oblivion. Hostas have been abused to the edge of existence. And, the lawn is almost entirely gone....it's nubbins that I have to keep alive by moving caging around to keep the birds off of it. Not that I'm entranced with grass; I've been trying to eradicate it from my garden for years, just not the 'lawn'.

Ah, well....I've decided I prefer the chooks to much of the low-level plantlife around here. I'm working on what it takes to keep the chooks off those items which can do well provided they are allowed to leaf out....like my roses...and my iris.

As for delphinia...well, given that the chickens like that, too, on top of rabbits, slugs and seemingly every garden pest ever to pass through my property, I'm giving my delphinia madness a rest.

[Rie]

I am on unfriendly terms with chickens and it's not my fault. But since I get my Secular nose rubbed in chicken , er, droppings every day I will contribute that I intend to get a pet egg.

I will draw a kind face, all smiling and smug on it and will keep it warm and maybe I will eat it?

[Goldie]

I am on unfriendly terms with chickens and it's not my fault. But since I get my Secular nose rubbed in chicken , er, droppings every day I will contribute that I intend to get a pet egg.

I will draw a kind face, all smiling and smug on it and will keep it warm and maybe I will eat it?

Sounds like a plan, Rie. :)

[Roo St. Gallus]

Yeah...Ramen, Rie.