hi hevvin machine :)

[miss djax]

hi there :)

hevvin machine's thread was really more of a 'hi here i am' as opposed to a thread for religions and it kind of derailed a time or three so i thought i'd open a new welcome one for him and we could start chatting here :D

so welcome :D

hows it going? we seem to have very different musical tastes ;) at least it seems that way based on the song titles thread. i can overlook that tho. i kid!!

seriously tho - welcome!!

ms d

[Hevvin Machine]

Hi there, ms d. Nice ta meet'cha.

Yeah that thread was a disappointment, since it turned out to be about just the kind of religion I don't like. I haven't even read most of it, every time I opened it I got grossed out.

I don't get too wrought up about theology myself. Lot's of people wouldn't even think I'm a Christian, much less a Catholic, because I tend to think for myself. I don't buy much of traditional theology. I don't think our puny human images of God can possibly compare God's True Nature, so I don't see any reason to fight about it. There is too much to do that is important to waste my life worrying about the minutae.

There are a lot of other Christians like me, but we generally get drowned out by the noisier folks. I thought that if I started a thread here in introductions we could talk about my beliefs.

My religious beliefs are quite as real to me as evolution or gravity. However I do not feel any burning need that any other particular person agree with me about them. A big part of the reason that I stick with the RCC is that it is a huge community that includes people with whom I disagree. Some of what goes on in there gripes me royally, but if I weren't a member of the community nobody would ever hear what I think. I'm a curmudgeonly old prude who thinks people should get married and stay married. I do not see homosexuals as any different in that regard. My support for legal recognition of gay marriage is not an opinion I hold to be popular, as you can imagine. And not long ago I received an E-mail from a parishoner asking me to sign a petition against inviting President Obama to speak at Notre Dame University. I could send back a response including:I know that Condoleeza Rice was invited to address another Catholic institution, Boston College. She got an honorary degree. She not only supports elective abortion, she also supports war and torture. Why wasn't this outrage sufficient to get a petition drive under way? The Pope himself described what Ms. Rice did as a "crime against humanity".

I am personally Pro-Life. I oppose elective abortion, as well as torture and impoverishment and war and capital punishment and environmental degradation and every other form of Anti-Life behaviour I know about. Our president, Mr. Obama, is hardly perfect in my view. But he better represents my Pro-Life views than any politician who has won the Oval Office since the first time I voted, which was for Ronald Reagan in 1980.

I hope that you will reconsider your opposition to Notre Dame's invitation. Mr. Obama is the most Pro-Life president America has had in my lifetime. Not perfect, as I said, he is a politician. However, compared to the Bush administration he is a staunch Pro-Lifer. The Bush administration talked about Pro-Life policies while actively pursuing Anti-Life policies. Mr. Obama has only been in office for two months. We can't know what the outcome of electing him will be. But almost anything will be more Pro-Life than the last president. I don't know what the dear sweet but seriously conservative little old church lady thought when she got this (included in a chatty little E-mail), but I know that she at least read it because she knows me and what I stand for.

Anyway, I should get to bed. Nice chatting with you.
Hev

PS My musical tastes are quite varied, I like almost everything. I tend to be a classic rocker, but right at this moment Mozart is playing on the radio.

[DMB]

Belated welcome, HM! :)

[miss djax]

nice letter, hevvin!!! i bet she flipped ;)

love me some mozart!!

[David B]

We can get back to talking about your beliefs in another thread, Hevvin:cool:

That other thread has taken on a life of its own, so to speak.

David

[Anne]

you sound like the kind of Catholic most of our friends are.

I'm sorry your thread got away from you. Please post more! And not about your beliefs... ;)

[rlogan]

welcome.

seems like catholics as a group treat it (religion) more as a social thing.

[Hevvin Machine]

Hello, everybody. Thanks.

To me religion is not about whether God walked on water or sent a Seal of the Prophets or rescued the Israelites from Egypt. It is about the meta-messages which are all about having the best possible life. We've been given the tools for having excellent lives and many of the most powerful tools have come from religious experiences. Science is also a tool. Like religion it is quite powerful. But unlike religion it has no connection to that which is greater than man's baser instincts. Humans need spirituality and few humans manage to grow spiritually without religion.

At the same time religion can be used as a crutch, or worse, as a weapon. People are quite right when they point out the hideous results of humans using religion to justify evil behaviour. Belonging to a religious community does not absolve one from thinking and feeling and observing for oneself.
"God said it, I believe it, that settles it" only works for what someone believes God has said to them personally about their own life. Human relationships require the understanding that God might have said something else to somebody. The Bible said it, I believe it, that settles it:D
Hev

[Hevvin Machine]

welcome.

seems like catholics as a group treat it (religion) more as a social thing. You bring up something that is, to me, an important point. The social thing and the spiritual thing are not mutually exclusive, I don't even think they are separable. I, personally, couldn't get on with spiritual growth all by myself than I could enjoy a gourmet meal alone in the kitchen.

That's the point to religion. Having a community where you sample and share and chit-chat about your lives while doing something that is crucial to existence.
Hev