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coberst
07 May 2009, 05:43 PM
Is there a path to wisdom?

How can I know what I do not know? How can I trace that boundary between knowledge and ignorance?

In the dialogue “Apology” Plato writes about Socrates while in the dungeon just before drinking the hemlock that the citizens of Athens condemned him to be executed.

In the dungeon shortly before drinking from the hemlock cup Socrates spoke to his followers. He spoke about the accusations against him at the trial. He said that the sworn indictment against him was “Socrates is guilty of needless curiosity and meddling interference, inquiring into things beneath Earth and in the Sky…”

Socrates further adds that he is accused of teaching the people of Athens, to which Socrates vehemently denies that he is a teacher. He points out that in matters of wisdom he has only a small piece of that territory; the wisdom that he does have is the wisdom not to think he knows what he does not know. Socrates conjectures that he has the wisdom to recognize the boundary of his present knowledge and to search for that knowledge that he does not have. “So it seems at any rate I am wiser in this one small respect: I do not think I know what I do not.”

For Socrates a necessary component of wisdom is to comprehend what one is ignorant of.

Am I wise? Do I know what I am ignorant of? I certainly know that I am ignorant of astronomy and music. There are many things about which it is obvious to me that I am ignorant of. Are there things about which I am not even aware of my ignorance? Are there matters about which I think I am knowledgeable of but which I am, in fact, ignorant of?

When I ask myself these questions I become conscious of a great number of things about which I am ignorant. Does this mean I am like Socrates in this matter? I do not think so. Socrates is speaking about two types of ignorance about which most people are unconscious of.

I think that Socrates is speaking of our ‘burden of illusion’. People are unconscious of the superficiality of much that they think they know and they are unconscious of a vast domain of knowledge that is hidden from the non critical thinker.

The uncritical mind has no means for discovering these illusions. CT (Critical Thinking) is the keystone for discovering these illusions. The Catch-22 here is how can one develop a critical mind when they are deluded into thinking they have a critical mind?

When our educational system has not taught our citizens how to think critically how can our citizens ever pull themselves out of this deep hole of illusion?


“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble; it’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so”—Mark Twain

coberstakaDutchuncle

tjakey
07 May 2009, 05:56 PM
I think the path to wisdom is pretty broad, pretty easy to find, and pretty easy to follow. Read, experience, learn, think, learn some more.

The fact that so few people seem to find their way suggests that we really are members of a barely functional, violent, self-deluded and self-destructive species. But shit, all you can do is play the cards you are dealt.

Ray Moscow
07 May 2009, 06:19 PM
Is there a path to wisdom?


Yes. I figure:

pay attention
learn to think critically
learn to ignore those who are spreading bullshit
pay more attention to those who show honesty

and stay alive long enough to learn something.

MrFungus420
08 May 2009, 04:12 AM
Is there a path to wisdom?


Yes. I figure:

pay attention
learn to think critically
learn to ignore those who are spreading bullshit
pay more attention to those who show honesty

and stay alive long enough to learn something.

You forgot the most important one...

Never read a coberst post...

miss djax
08 May 2009, 05:12 AM
Is there a path to wisdom?



yes.

travel the world
volunteer
do things outside of your comfort zone
read, read, read

Free in Freeport
08 May 2009, 11:31 AM
^What she said. There is a path and it's called life.

Unfortunately it sucks, but the alternative isn't too attractive either.

Valheru
08 May 2009, 12:45 PM
Do we really achieve "wisdom" as an end-state? In my experience, you learn new truths every day, throughout your life.

It's certainly something to strive for, but I don't think it's something that you can identify as "achieved", because at any point in your life, it's always a relative comparison to the things you used to believe in the past.

A friend of mine's late father used to say: "It takes five years to learn to speak, but it takes a lifetime to learn to shut the fuck up."

premjan
08 May 2009, 02:21 PM
Try to learn from your (and others') mistakes.

JamesBannon
08 May 2009, 04:24 PM
Try not to hurt people, or yourself.

coberst
09 May 2009, 07:47 AM
In the summer of 48 my older brother told me that if I wanted to play high school football I had to ‘get ready’. In his terms, ‘getting ready’ meant running to get in condition for the rigors of football practice.

In the spring of 09 I want to begin the quest for wisdom. How do I ‘get ready’ for becoming wise?

Starting with the definition of wisdom as “seeing life whole” seems to be as good a place to begin as I can think of. How do I get ready to see life whole?

It seems to me that to see life whole I must learn a great deal more than I already have learned but I must start with where I presently am. I am convinced that learning new stuff requires three aspects (a position facing a particular direction) of mind; mentally I must have curiosity, caring, and an orderly mind.

I claim that curiosity and caring are necessary conditions for understanding. Understanding is a far step beyond knowing. I will not examine a matter for the purpose of understanding it unless I am curious about it. I must care enough about the matter to do the intellectual work necessary to understand.

Understanding is a step beyond knowing and is seldom required or measured by schooling. Understanding is generally of disinterested knowledge, i.e. disinterested knowledge is an intrinsic (due to the nature of the self) value. Disinterested knowledge is not a means but an end. It is knowledge I seek because I desire to know it. I mean the term ‘disinterested knowledge’ as similar to ‘pure research’, as compared to ‘applied research’. Pure research seeks to know truth unconnected to any specific application.

Understanding is often difficult and time consuming and the justification is not extrinsic (outside cause) but intrinsic.

Questions for consideration:
Is caring necessary for understanding? I think so.
What is ‘understanding’?
Is curiosity necessary for knowing? I think so.
Is curiosity necessary for understanding? I think so.
Is a knowledge of history required to ‘see life whole’? Absolutely!!
Is difficulty our duty? I think so.

HinduWoman
09 May 2009, 11:22 AM
The first steps to getting ready for wisdom is:

1) Stop believing everything other people, sp; authority figure says
2) start thinking critically instead of what is comfortable.
3) Don't lie to yourself about your motives.

coberst
10 May 2009, 08:06 AM
The first steps to getting ready for wisdom is:

1) Stop believing everything other people, sp; authority figure says
2) start thinking critically instead of what is comfortable.
3) Don't lie to yourself about your motives.

Well said!

Danhalen
10 May 2009, 11:22 AM
Understanding is a step beyond knowing and is seldom required or measured by schooling. Understanding is generally of disinterested knowledge, i.e. disinterested knowledge is an intrinsic (due to the nature of the self) value. Disinterested knowledge is not a means but an end. It is knowledge I seek because I desire to know it. I mean the term ‘disinterested knowledge’ as similar to ‘pure research’, as compared to ‘applied research’. Pure research seeks to know truth unconnected to any specific application.

Understanding is often difficult and time consuming and the justification is not extrinsic (outside cause) but intrinsic.I think you are confusing "knowing that" with "knowing how." There are further uses of "knowing" as well. Could you be talking about a Bergsonian notion of objective knowing? It really keeps getting deeper from here, so I think your dichotomy fails miserably at grasping the intricacies of knowing. Perhaps you do not really understand.

Daydream
14 May 2009, 04:58 AM
How about:

Reason, observation, experience, education, and striving to increase the happiness of humanity.

tjakey
14 May 2009, 12:53 PM
< Looks around the world a bit...

The first step on the path to wisdom is to...

PULL your head OUT of your ASS!