Affirmaton and oaths split from Sharia Law thread

[Notta]

I'm waiting for the day I get sworn in at a courtroom and refuse to put my hand on a bible or say "so help me god."

[Lisa0315]

I'm waiting for the day I get sworn in at a courtroom and refuse to put my hand on a bible or say "so help me god."

No one will force you to do that.

[DMB]

Do all the states allow you to affirm instead of taking an oath? There was a big struggle for many years in the UK over this. Charles Bradlaugh

In 1880 Bradlaugh was elected Member of Parliament for Northampton, and claimed the right to affirm (instead of taking the religious Oath of Allegiance), but this was denied, and he subsequently offered to take the oath "as a matter of form". This offer, too, was rejected by the House. Because a Member must take the oath before being allowed to take their seat, he effectively forfeited his seat in Parliament. He attempted to take his seat regardless and was arrested and briefly imprisoned in the Clock Tower of the Houses of Parliament. His seat fell vacant and a by-election was declared. Bradlaugh was re-elected by Northampton four times in succession as the dispute continued. Supporting Bradlaugh were William Gladstone, George Bernard Shaw, and John Stuart Mill, as well as hundreds of thousands of people who signed a public petition. Opposing his right to sit were the Conservative Party, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and other leading figures in the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church.

On at least one occasion, Bradlaugh was escorted from the House by police officers. In 1883 he took his seat and voted three times before being fined £1,500 for voting illegally. A bill allowing him to affirm was defeated in Parliament.

In 1886 Bradlaugh was finally allowed to take the oath, and did so at the risk of prosecution under the Parliamentary Oaths Act. Two years later, in 1888, he secured passage of a new Oaths Act, which enshrined into law the right of affirmation for members of both Houses, as well as extending and clarifying the law as it related to witnesses in civil and criminal trials (the Evidence Amendment Acts of 1869 and 1870 had proved unsatisfactory, though they had given relief to many who would otherwise have been disadvantaged).

BTW, the National Secular Society (http://www.secularism.org.uk/), which was founded by Bradlaugh, still flourishes. We seem to need it as much as ever.

[Garnet]

No one will force you to do that.

Perhaps not force but in every court I've been in, swearing to God has been the default assumption. Every time I was sworn in when I was a probation officer I had to tell the clerk that I preferred to affirm. For my bankruptcy in Alabama, they swore in the whole room full of people. I wasn't given an opportunity to affirm, so I just didn't say the "so help me God part."

[Garnet]

I think affirming is allowed in every state, DMB. It's just that some states are better than others about making the choice known and accepted.

[Notta]

I think affirming is allowed in every state, DMB. It's just that some states are better than others about making the choice known and accepted.
I live in Pennsylvania, not far from the infamous "Kitzmiller vs. the Dover Board of Education" trial about intelligent design and schools. Every time I've been in a courtroom around here it's Bibles and "so help me God" at the end of an oath. I've NEVER seen an alternative offered, even though I know it's legal.

My principal once tried to suspend a kid who wouldn't stand at the school assemblies for the Pledge of Allegiance. I had to tell him the Supreme Court had ruled that kids could sit for religious reasons.

[Garnet]

Yeah, Notta. They're usually not offered. I don't know if it's still like this in Arizona, but the person being sworn in had to say something. The clerk doing the swearing in did not offer.

[DMB]

I haven't been in a UK court since I divorced my first husband donkey's years ago, but I had to ask to affirm. It wasn't offered.

[Mediancat]

first husband donkey's

Am I the only one who saw that as "first husband's donkey" and had to do a doubletake?

Rob