Jealousy and Envy

[Alex]

People tend not to distinguish envy from jealousy and lump them together. But according to Georgetown University psychologist W. Gerrod Parrott*, they are not two aspects of the same "super emotion." On the contrary, they are distinct feelings with different constituents, and are elicited by completely different situations and in completely different settings. Envy can occur when a person lacks someone else's superior quality, achievement, or possession, and desires it - or wishes that the other person lacked it.

By contrast, jealousy occurs in the context of a close relationship when a person fears losing an important other to a rival - in particular, losing a relationship that is important to one's self esteem.

For all their distinctiveness, envy and jealousy sometimes occur together. For instance, when a romantic partner gives attention to an attractive rival, a person may feel both jealous of that attention and envious of the rival for being so attractive. And since jealousy involves the loss of a personal relationship, it's usually more intense than envy.

Here's how envy and jealousy stack up:

ENVY
Feelings of inferiority
Longing
Resentment of circumstances
Ill will towards envied person often accompanied by guilt about these feelings
Motivation to improve
Desire to possess the attractive rival's qualities
Disapproval of feelings

JEALOUSY
Fear of loss
Suspicion or anger about betrayal
Low self-esteem and sadness over loss
Uncertainty and loneliness
Fear of losing an important person to an attractive other
Distrust

While the emotions of jealousy and envy do tend to overlap in some respects, there are some fundamental differences between the two. Jealousy, for example, is almost exclusively a negative emotion, while envy can has some positive effects, such as a renewed interest in self-improvement.

For an analysis of the social value of envy and an argument that envy alone makes any kind of social co-existence possible, Helmut Schoeck's Envy: A Theory of Social Behaviour is a classic account.

*Report in Journal of Personality and Social Psychology (Vol. 64, No. 4)

[Cath B]

Interesting, but a bit subtle for me.

I think my grasp of emotional nuance is a bit iffy.

Have there been any tests involving picking up brain activity and/or hormone changes associated with folk experiencing these allegedly distinct though sometimes linked emotions?

[Ray Moscow]

The distinction makes sense to me.

[Cath B]

But can't you have just some of the feelings Parrott linkes to envy with just some of those he associates with jealousy?

[Ray Moscow]

But can't you have just some of the feelings Parrott linkes to envy with just some of those he associates with jealousy?

Yes, some of the associated feelings are very similar. That's probably why "jealousy" and "envy" are often lumped together.

However, I think the distinction is important, too.

[Alex]

^ I think the distinction is important too. Envy gets a bad rap. I'm trying to rehabilitate it as a social virtue.

(I hestitated before starting this thread - thinking it might seem like I was trying to emulate coberst.) :)

[Christina]

It wouldn't occur to me not to distinguish between the two. I think of envy as more related to things and accomplishments and jealousy as more related to my own insecurities and men.

[Preno]

It seems to me that jealousy is being unhappy because someone else has something you find valuable, while envy is being unhappy because you don't have something that you find valuable. I.e. if I can't have it, why should he vs. if he can have it, why shouldn't I?

[Eudaimonist]

I have always made this distinction, and it is a pet peeve of mine when others fail to do so.

BTW, I don't think that envy can count as a virtue, however, I agree that it can sometimes be used as a motivation towards positive goals.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[Alex]

Jealousy always seems to be attended by passionate spitefulness, but is envy always accompanied by resentment and malice? Is it possible for some people to be entirely devoid of envy?

If we envy the prosperity of others, it's not the prosperity of all and sundry that disturbs us but the prosperity of specific individuals. Which individuals? Well, the objects of envy often turn out, it seems, to be people who have formerly been rivals or potential rivals. Those we envy tend to exist and compete at or near our "level" in the social scale.

Does anyone envy the Queen of England outside her royal milieu? Other monarchs might, but it's difficult to imagine that she's envied by women the world over.

[Cath B]

I envy all the clever people here who can distinguish envy from jealousy so easily.

Or maybe I'm jealous of them.

[Cath B]

Jealousy always seems to be attended by passionate spitefulness, but is envy always accompanied by resentment and malice? Is it possible for some people to be entirely devoid of envy?



Aaagh, I'm confused again!

What's the difference between spite and malice?

[Christina]

Jealousy always seems to be attended by passionate spitefulness...

I don't know about that. I think that's it's as often attended by insecurity that doesn't have enough confidence to be spiteful and is turned inward instead.

[Alex]

Aaagh, I'm confused again!

What's the difference between spite and malice?

I don't think there is one. Jealousy is always accompanied by spite (or its synonym, malice); but I'm not sure that envy is.

[Cath B]

I thought you just said it was here (http://www.secularcafe.org/showthread.php?p=46218&#post46218).

Sorry, just reread your post (again) and discovered that I'd read it wrong

[Cath B]

OK, I think I've got the difference between envy and jealousy now.

Though folk I know sometimes use jealousy without appearing to experience malice and resentmant.

Should that be considered an incorrect use of the word or an acceptable alternative meaning?

[Christina]

I don't think there is one. Jealousy is always accompanied by spite (or its synonym, malice);

I don't see where you're getting "always" from. Do you have some sort of source for that or is it your opinion based on your own experiences?

[Cath B]

Even if envy does not involve malice it doesn't necessarily make it laudable.

Consider a scenario:-

A has a car and petrol with which to run it.

B, C, D, ....... Z are envious.

They each think, "If I earn enough money, I can buy a car and petrol too".

They are industrious, earn good money and buy cars and petrol.

The local road becomes too dangerous to play in because of the cars.

Green space is paved over to make parking space.

Petrol fumes cause pollution.

Oil supplies are depleted.

And so on...

[Cath B]

Sorry if I'm boring youse* but I'm still pondering and hence harping on about this.

From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jealousy) (my bold):-

Jealousy vs Envy

Popular culture uses the word jealousy as a synonym for envy. Many dictionary definitions include a reference to envy or envious feelings. In fact, the overlapping use of jealousy and envy has a long history.

"The terms are used indiscriminately in such popular 'feelgood' books as Nancy Friday's Jealousy, where the expression 'jealousy' applies to a broad range of passions, from envy to lust and greed. While this kind of usage blurs the boundaries between categories that are intellectually valuable and psychologically justifiable, such confusion is understandable in that historical explorations of the term indicate that these boundaries have long posed problems. Margot Grzywacz's fascinating etymological survey of the word in Romance and Germanic languages asserts, indeed, that the concept was one of those that proved to be the most difficult to express in language and was therefore among the last to find an unambiguous term. Classical Latin used invidia, without strictly differentiating between envy and jealousy. It was not until the postclassical era that Latin borrowed the late and poetic Greek word zelotypia and the associated adjective zelosus. It is from this adjective that are derived French jaloux, Provencal gelos, Italian geloso, and Spanish celoso. from Lloyd, R. (1995). Closer & Closer Apart: Jealousy in Literature. Ithaca, NY: C


The wiki article also forms the basis for the OP.

It appears that a distinction that may have been arrived at in post classical Latin (if Lloyd is correct) has not stood the test of time particularly well in modern English.

I can't help wondering how appropriate it is for this guy Parrotquoted in wiki and the OP (who doesn't yet appear to have a wiki entry) to hijack these two terms and claim that popular culture, i.e. part of an evolved use of language, has somehow "got it wrong" and that his (to me) arbitrary definitions should be considered the true ones.

* Scottish for "you" in the plural - just seemed the best word to use here.

[Goldie]

I often envy in a non negative way.
For example: I may like something a friend bought that I cannot have and I envy them for it... but I am STILL happy for them that they have it and I still love them.

I am rarely jealous or really envious of others.

I may think you have a cool bike and wish I had one, but I don't see that as negative. I'm hoping you'll give me a ride! :)

[Jobar]

Both emotions are sorts of greed, I think. But I agree they're distinct.

[Alex]

I don't think there is one. Jealousy is always accompanied by spite (or its synonym, malice);

I don't see where you're getting "always" from. Do you have some sort of source for that or is it your opinion based on your own experiences?

That's my understanding of the definition of jealousy and one of the attributes that helps to differentiate it from mere envy.

Apart from Parrot's article, which I paraphrased in the OP, the most comprehensive study of envy that I've read is Schoeck's book. He says this about jealousy: "It differs from envy in being infinitely more spiteful as well as more impassioned and less restrained".

The combination of malice and jealousy evidently arises from its association with the deprivation of an affection.

[Christina]

I guess that everyone will have their own opinion. I'm not big on believing things just because someone else said them in a book if they run counter to my own experiences. I'm arrogant, I suppose, but I've seen and experienced so many exceptions that I don't see it as the defining word on the subject, just another opinion.

[Alex]

You asked for a source for the distinction (made in the OP) between envy and jealousy: I supplied one. When you choose not to believe an account of some phenomenon because it runs counter to your subjective experience, you introduce a severe limit on what you might be willing to discuss.

I haven't given a "definitive" version of what's entailed by the concepts of jealousy and envy. It's quite usual to cite academic opinion that's relevant to the topic you're talking about.

[Christina]

I tend to think that 'always' and 'never' work better when discussing scientific behavior rather than when applied to human behavior. I understand that you and your source feel that 'always' is appropriate. I don't. They're all opinions and we generally all have one.

[Alex]

^ Does this mean you deny that human behaviour can be a subject of scientific study?

[Christina]

No, it means that I don't agree that jealousy and envy are always accompanied by spite and malice and that there are not absolutes when it comes to human behavior. It's probably best to agree to disagree at this point since you seem to think that there are absolutes and we aren't going to change each other's opinions.

[Alex]

^ OK. Thanks for your opinion.