Poll: majority in US oppose both wars

[rlogan]

About fucking time.

Almost ten years ago now it was lonely being against the Afghan war. In the face of hysteria the Bush administration was doing its best to exploit and misdirect almost nobody opposed the stupidity of overthrowing the government instead of going after Bin Laden.


http://news.antiwar.com/2009/07/23/poll-majority-in-us-oppose-both-wars/

So here we are now with Bin Laden running around free and Afghanistan has turned into Afghanistan-Pakistan (soon if not already other whatsitstans too).

Obama is locked into his own idiotic campaign gimmick now. He needed to prove he was "tough on terror" but better focused than Bush.

So he exploited how catastrophic Iraq had been while at the same time pretending that widening the war in the Af-Pak theater was wise.

Nobody even questioned that. So now reality is questioning it for him.

It will be very interesting to see how Obama gets out of this one. Looks to me like he won't.

In the short run he looked so tough and pragmatic while still buying into the basic stupid premise that attacking the Taliban instead of Bin Laden was the right thing to do.

[tjakey]

I thought we pretty much proved we were against the wars at the last election and the one before that. But, as usual, it didn't make any difference.

[premjan]

Obama can't afford to look like a wimp. US politics won't allow it. Carter cut the military too much.

[tjakey]

You can't cut the military too much. If you cut it in half it would still be bigger, more expensive and more capable than any other army on the planet. As it is we spend more on the military than the rest of the planet combined. All the budget talk in DC is pure, grade A, class 1 bullshit. Until you cut the utterly insane military spending in this country, nothing else can be fixed. Of course Obama, the change President, increased military spending 4%.

[premjan]

Isn't it an employment issue? What will all the soldiers do?

[nogods4me]

Obama can't afford to look like a wimp. US politics won't allow it. Carter cut the military too much.

No such thing.

[Valheru]

Isn't it an employment issue? What will all the soldiers do?

If you can spend billions manufacturing military hardware and training kids to kill, you can spend billions manufacturing consumer goods and training kids to live and work productive lives.

All that's needed is a 360-degree mindset switch.

BUT, ain't gonna happen. Look at the cost of the US' next-gen carriers. :rolleyes:

[rlogan]

I thought we pretty much proved we were against the wars at the last election and the one before that. But, as usual, it didn't make any difference.

I guess so.

I do feel opinion has changed in Afghanistan though. I think 9/11 hysteria is finally subsiding enough to look at it rationally now for a lot of people.

[sohy]

Obama is getting pretty good at pleasing Republicans. They still support the war by a pretty wide margin.

[willynilly]

We really screwed Afghanistan once if they want us there it's one thing. Iraq is a joke though.

[Harry Bosch]

Obama can't afford to look like a wimp. US politics won't allow it. Carter cut the military too much. Yep, this is the issue. If Obama immediately pulls out of Iraq and Afganistan, and our allies there that we have propped up, are killed, the countries fall to Islamic chaos, and the US again attacked by some wacko group training there, Obama will go down is one of the worst presidents in history.

[premjan]

The other issue you point out there is that there are real humanitarian issues with just pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan because of the chance for rise of unsavory groups, anarchy etc.

[Ray Moscow]

[GOP mode]But wouldn't you rather fight them over there than over here?!!! [/GOP mode]

them = everyone outside the USA, especially brown-skinned furners

[Harry Bosch]

The other issue you point out there is that there are real humanitarian issues with just pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan because of the chance for rise of unsavory groups, anarchy etc. Yep. I was against the US invasion in Iraq from day one. However, I think that we now have an obligation to "fix it" - or do what we can. I actually think that it is getting much better there. There is this perception that Islamic countries are destined to be run by the hard right wackos. I don't believe it. We are seeing more and more moderates in Iraq. I believe that the average Arab wants the same thing that the average American wants: a better life.