Presidency: Obama 'ineligible'

[Faerie]

2009-07-30 12:29

Washington - A small group of fringe conservatives, many fundamentally opposed to the notion of an African-American as president, are challenging President Barack Obama's eligibility for the US presidency.

On blogs and even before US courts, the so-called "Birthers" are using the Constitution, with its stipulation that presidents be US natural born citizens, to argue Obama should not be in the White House.

Despite proof that Obama was born in the US state of Hawaii, including a birth certificate affirming that fact, rumours continue to spread, fuelled by a group that critics say includes right-wing militants, racists and Holocaust deniers.

"These are people who are fundamentally either racist or extreme right-wingers. That's where the whole movement is coming from," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Centre, which studies extremist groups.

The movement is composed of "people who very much do not want Barack Obama to be president, largely because he is black, certainly because he is liberal", he added.



According to the Southern Poverty Law Centre, there were 926 racist groups in the United States in 2008, compared to 602 in 2000 - a rise of 54%.

"I think that's very significant, and the numbers continue to rise," said Potok. "Very likely the white supremacist world has been energised by the election of a black man into the White House."

http://www.news24.com/Content/World/News/1073/67eb3b5fc7de494ea73a9e4a20428a0a/30-07-2009%2012-07/Presidency_Obama_ineligible

For all his popularity in other countries, it would seem nobody in the US truly like their leader? :confused:

[Harry Bosch]

2009-07-30 12:29

Washington - A small group of fringe conservatives, many fundamentally opposed to the notion of an African-American as president, are challenging President Barack Obama's eligibility for the US presidency.

On blogs and even before US courts, the so-called "Birthers" are using the Constitution, with its stipulation that presidents be US natural born citizens, to argue Obama should not be in the White House.

Despite proof that Obama was born in the US state of Hawaii, including a birth certificate affirming that fact, rumours continue to spread, fuelled by a group that critics say includes right-wing militants, racists and Holocaust deniers.

"These are people who are fundamentally either racist or extreme right-wingers. That's where the whole movement is coming from," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Centre, which studies extremist groups.

The movement is composed of "people who very much do not want Barack Obama to be president, largely because he is black, certainly because he is liberal", he added.



According to the Southern Poverty Law Centre, there were 926 racist groups in the United States in 2008, compared to 602 in 2000 - a rise of 54%.

"I think that's very significant, and the numbers continue to rise," said Potok. "Very likely the white supremacist world has been energised by the election of a black man into the White House."

http://www.news24.com/Content/World/News/1073/67eb3b5fc7de494ea73a9e4a20428a0a/30-07-2009%2012-07/Presidency_Obama_ineligible

For all his popularity in other countries, it would seem nobody in the US truly like their leader? :confused: Nobody? You equate all Americans as "A small group of fringe conservatives, many fundamentally opposed to the notion of an African-American as president"?? Are there any fringe people in your country?

[Faerie]

Ag man, dont get your knickers in a knot, go read the other threads about the general disappointment in the US president and come back with some comments about why YOU like him. Personally I think he's great.

[Ray Moscow]

As Paul Krugman recently put it: (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/deminted-republicans/)

So what’s going on? Is it the fact that Obama is black? Actually, I don’t think so: there was a comparable level of craziness in 1993 — Bill Clinton is a drug smuggler, Hillary murdered Vince Foster. What’s basically going on is that a significant part of the modern GOP can’t accept the idea of a Democratic president.

Why? I think part of it is that, in the minds of quite a few, it’s a betrayal of a promise. They gave their loyalty to the GOP and the conservative movement in return for the expectation of being part of a permanent ruling party. It’s just wrong, as they see it, a perversion of the way things ought to be, to have the other party sitting in the White House. In short,

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/888/inconceivable.jpg

[Anne]

Faerie, I'll give you a hint:

Americans NEVER like their president.

reminds me of this Onion joke:
Black Man Given Nation's Worst Job
November 5, 2008 | Issue 44•45

WASHINGTON—African-American man Barack Obama, 47, was given the least-desirable job in the entire country Tuesday when he was elected president of the United States of America. In his new high-stress, low-reward position, Obama will be charged with such tasks as completely overhauling the nation's broken-down economy, repairing the crumbling infrastructure, and generally having to please more than 300 million Americans and cater to their every whim on a daily basis. As part of his duties, the black man will have to spend four to eight years cleaning up the messes other people left behind. The job comes with such intense scrutiny and so certain a guarantee of failure that only one other person even bothered applying for it. Said scholar and activist Mark L. Denton, "It just goes to show you that, in this country, a black man still can't catch a break."

[Anne]

Ag man, dont get your knickers in a knot, go read the other threads about the general disappointment in the US president and come back with some comments about why YOU like him. Personally I think he's great.

so do I, but it's not an easy post.

Here's a list of his current approval rating:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/29/polls-show-obamas-approval-continues-to-slip/

and here's a historical list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Presidential_approval_rating

does that help you out?

We're a complainy lot, we are. But I loves us.

[Ray Moscow]

Actually, right about now we need to start threatening to kick Obama's ass for pandering to special interests instead of the voter's needs. Politicians, Obama included, are constantly tempted to bend to the rich and powerful and feed the voters a line of BS.

[premjan]

I suppose it makes sense that the disgruntled and the satisfied are roughly 50-50 in a country on average. This shows that the political system is actually working, and people are exercising their right to their own aspirations.

[Notta]

The 'birthers' movement (people who think Obama is a. not a citizen, and b. paying vast amounts of money to cover this up) are bat-shit crazy. I read on the news that 2 young cops in Georgia decided to run a criminal background check (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/20218458/detail.html)on him, which alerted the Secret Service. It's illegal to do this to a federal official without a warrant or his/her permission, regardless of the office. They were suspended without pay. The best guess is that they were looking for background documents relating to his birth.

These people are completely convinced he's Kenyan or Indonesian. No matter that his mother was an American citizen, they think he isn't!

I read a comment yesterday on another site where someone claimed his mother 'lost' her citizenship by living in Indonesia and marrying an Indonesian man, therefore he 'lost' his, too. When they returned to the U.S. (and Obama was still a child), she didn't give a 'loyalty oath' to a civil official, and neither did he. Ergo, he's not a citizen!!

No matter that only NATURALIZED citizens give a 'loyalty' oath at their swearing in ceremony after passing their citizenship tests and requirements. No matter that an American citizen cannot 'lose' his or her citizenship, and no matter that CHILDREN of CITIZENS are automatically citizens themselves, this craziness continues unabated.

My take? It's about racism. They can't stand the idea that a man with an African, Muslim father is President. Whatever it takes to discredit him, they'll support it.

And I have some birthers in my extended family, too. I have a whole bunch of cousins who believe it, and I think my brother is leaning in that direction, too.

[premjan]

A lot of conservatism strikes me as a sort of enlightened racism.

[Notta]

Here's an excellent article from the Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/matthew-norman/matthew-norman-the-insanity-and-enduring-racism-of-the-american-right-1764520.html) about the birthers movement:One army officer, a Major Stefan Cook, refuses to serve in Afghanistan on the grounds that, since Obama isn't rightfully his commander-in-chief, the order to deploy is illegal. As for his lawyer, if you thought Esther Rantzen cuts an unconventional figure on the national political stage, here's a bottle blonde to make the old turnip-botherer look like Geoffrey Howe. Her sobriquet is Queen Bee of Birferstan, and the on-screen mini-biog accompanying a recent appearance on CNN briefly imbued that sober channel with Springeresque exoticism. "Dr Orly Taitz," it ran. "CA Attorney. Dentist. Real estate broker." As the sublime Jon Stewart pointed out, if you're contemplating a scam whereby a lawyer wins you enough in damages for botched root canal work to buy the home of your dreams, here's your gal.

Were it just Orly, whose legal qualification was earned over the internet, and a smattering of fellow narcissist-fantasists, the whole thing might be dismissed as touching idiocy. After all, if people wish to think that the August 1961 certificate of live birth is a forgery despite verification from Hawaiian officials, the state's Republican Governor and independent body factcheck.org; if they want to believe that birth announcements were planted in local Honolulu papers solely to prepare the ground for the day he could illegally enter the US and start his Islamist sleeper march on the White House; if they choose to trust a carefully edited interview with his Kenyan step-grandmother, cut off before she repeatedly confirms that he was born in Hawaii... well, that's their absolute right. Many of us solemnly believe objective absurdities. I believe that Tottenham Hotspur is one of the world's great football clubs, for instance, while a late relative was unswervingly convinced, as recently as 1989, that Hitler was working as a porter at a block of service flats in St John's Wood. Which of us is without a meshugas?

[Anne]

A lot of self identified conservative are fucked in the head and can't tell you what a conservative value is.

[sohy]

The birthers are a bunch of dumb ass racists. They fool you by walking upright.

I've criticized Obama but I do like him. I like him on a personal level, but I really thought he would be more left leaning when he got into office. Now, he seems to be just another politician that has sold out to corporations. Time will tell. He did inherit a much bigger mess than any recent president, so perhaps things will change as he gets more experience in the role. I'll take him over anyone else that I can think of in government. I'm certainly glad that McCain didn't win.

Our country is deeply divided so it is much more difficult to get anything substantial done without compromising. I guess we who were big supporters of Obama expected too much. He also is having to deal with a party that does everything they can to be obstructionists, and a wing of the Democrats that are quite conservative.

Some wing nut compared Obama to Stalin the other day. The guy can't win. The left think he's too conservative and the right things he's a communist. Even when I'm angry at him, I feel very sorry for him. He certainly doesn't deserve the amount of criticism he gets.

[BigEvil]

I personally liked both Obama and McCain, just didn't like how McCain abandoned his principals during the campaign. I still like Obama, but he is not going to run a transparent government. I have not given up wanting that, but I have given up expecting it. I am glad he is pushing through the health care plan, but the end result could be good or bad. Needs to be done, but there are alot of ways to do it badly. Its a wait and see on that.

[DMB]

It seems you only have to lift a stone and thousands of conspiracy theorists stream out.

[LoneWolf]

No matter that an American citizen cannot 'lose' his or her citizenship, and no matter that CHILDREN of CITIZENS are automatically citizens themselves, this craziness continues unabated.

The part I bolded isn’t exactly true. The American parent still has to fill out a lot of paperwork and must show that he/she is able to financially support the child in the States. Without that agreement the US won’t recognize the child as an American. I have seen it happen over here in Cambodia several times.
Of course, none of that applies to Obama, as he was born inside the US.

[Ray Moscow]

The ironic thing was that John McCain was not born in Panama, not the US. But did they question his citizenship or eligibility?

[premjan]

I think this time around it took presidential candidates with some emotional distance from the US to make a good case for president. Obama (Kenya, Indonesia, Hawaii) and McCain (Vietnam, Panama).

[dancer_rnb]

It seems you only have to lift a stone and thousands of conspiracy theorists stream out.

Remember the one that Haliburton and Cheney were running the White House?:evil:

[dancer_rnb]

The ironic thing was that John McCain was not born in Panama, not the US. But did they question his citizenship or eligibility?

I don't have any references, but I think it came up.

[Free in Freeport]

My reaction:

Obama was seen as a huge symbol of hope, and almost hero-worshipped by a large segment of USA. Now that his presidency is underway and we're still mired in unwinnable wars, a fragmented health care system and unemployment, people are getting a reality check. Obama is a man, not superman. We are a nation with many complex problems, which aren't going to be solved overnight, or even over the course of one presidency.

[frazier]

The ironic thing was that John McCain was not born in Panama, not the US. But did they question his citizenship or eligibility?

I don't have any references, but I think it came up.
It came up, it was glanced at, it was shrugged off.

NTIWA, but my situation is similar to McCain's - my dad was an Air Force doc, stationed in Frankfurt, Germany, where I was born. My citizenship has never been questioned, had no problem getting passports etc. I don't think I've ever had a copy of my "certificate of live birth."

[tjakey]

My reaction:

Obama was seen as a huge symbol of hope, and almost hero-worshipped by a large segment of USA. Now that his presidency is underway and we're still mired in unwinnable wars, a fragmented health care system and unemployment, people are getting a reality check. Obama is a man, not superman. We are a nation with many complex problems, which aren't going to be solved overnight, or even over the course of one presidency.

I hire a car, tell the driver I want to go from St. Louis to Indianapolis. We agree on a price, I get in, he drives down Vandeventer and gets on 70 West. How many exists do we pass before I am forced to admit we are going in the wrong fucking direction? And the further we go the further we have to back track if and when we ever do get turned around. Obama was elected to turn us around. Until he does that he is a failure, or a fraud. (Not sure which yet.)

[dancer_rnb]

Or we fooled ourselves.

[PostMortem]

Headline:

New Poll: Less Than Half Of Republicans Believe Obama Was Born In U.S.

From: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/31/new-poll-less-than-half-o_n_248470.html

Less than half of Republicans believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America, a new public opinion poll finds.

Only 42 percent of Republican respondents in a Research 2000 survey, conducted for the liberal website Daily Kos, said they thought Obama was a natural born citizen; 28 percent said they did not believe Obama was born in the United States; 30 percent said they were not sure.

The responses, which were gathered after several prominent conservative media personalities fed suspicion that Obama was unconstitutionally holding office, show the extent to which the conspiracy has taken hold in the GOP.

Poll Breakdown here:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/31/760087/-Birthers-are-mostly-Republican-and-Southern

This is how deeply ingrained these beliefs are on the right, especially in the South. Given these numbers I doubt these rumours will ever go away, that's good news for at least one person, Lou Dobbs.

As Mark Twain said, “A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes”

[premjan]

Poor babies - everybody needs their little myths.

[Anne]

Just found out my aunt is one of them.

My mom's having issues with being surrounded by these people...

[tjakey]

I wonder how many Republicans think the earth is flat and 6000 years old? Then again, maybe I don't want to know.

Oh, and for the record, Lou Dobbs is an idiot.

[Ray Moscow]

Just found out my aunt is one of them.

My mom's having issues with being surrounded by these people...

I kind of dread my next trip to visit family in Louisiana. The majority of people I know there will be birthers and equally crazy about other things.

[tjakey]

Fuck Ray, don't go. When they ask, "Why?" say, "Because you fucking people is crazy."

[Ray Moscow]

Fuck Ray, don't go. When they ask, "Why?" say, "Because you fucking people is crazy."

That's one reason I prefer to live in Europe.

But that's where my family lives, so I have to visit them occasionally.

[Valheru]

This here's not surprising, but very visually interesting: Guess who?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/af/Gallup_Poll-Approval_Rating-George_W_Bush.png/800px-Gallup_Poll-Approval_Rating-George_W_Bush.png

[BioBeing]

Olbermann was saying last night that the birthers have come out with the "real" certificate of Obama's birth. In the Republic of Kenya, before it was actually a Republic. In a city that was, at the time, in a different country.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/32276892#32276892

Those people are clutching at straws!

[Notta]

Oohhh, now he's the anti-Christ!

raCRSjnT0Wc

Debunking column here (http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/08/i_am_the_antichrist_no_really.php)

[Notta]

Here's the original Kenyan certificate!!

New Kenyan certificate found (http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/feature/2009/08/03/birthers_kenya/index.html)

Oh, wait, that's the site that DEBUNKS the Kenyan birth certificate....

It's a good read, though.

[Ray Moscow]

Just because they are delusional and clutching at straws doesn't mean that they can't take over the country.

Again.

[BioBeing]

Wow! Watch Orly Taitz here!!! She is as crazy as a loon!

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/08/03/msnbc_taitz/index.html

[premjan]

I think the Kenyan birth certificate looks like it is a forgery (easy to do in Kenya as with scams in Nigeria) but it is not possible to demonstrate without doubt. Hence the birther movement will live on. Apparently newpaper announcements and birth certificates in Hawaii would only require one relative to attest them.

[Notta]

The original owner of the Kenyan birth certificate has been located and interviewed in the article I linked to right above your post.

But you're right -- NOTHING will appease the birthers. They still think Obama is a secret Muslim terrorist.

[Notta]

Interview with the original owner of the faked "Kenyan" birth certificate from ABC news (http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2646009.htm):
DINA ROSENDORFF: Looking over the documents in question Mr Bomford still can't quite believe his eyes.

DAVID JEFFREY BOMFORD: It's little old me and my mum and everything else up there. Oh I definitely confirm that the birth certificate was mine. That was quite easy to see - my address, even the style of the birth certificate was an old South Australian one.

So it's quite easy to identify that it's mine.

DINA ROSENDORFF: And looking at the fake Kenyan birth certificate what do you make of it?

DAVID JEFFREY BOMFORD: It's definitely a copy of my certificate. It's so laughable it's ridiculous.

[Ray Moscow]

Don't say you weren't warned: Horrors of the Obama Administration (http://www.thepaincomics.com/weekly081112.htm)

[premjan]

Fantastic - smart piece of detective work.

[nogods4me]

I think the Kenyan birth certificate looks like it is a forgery (easy to do in Kenya as with scams in Nigeria) but it is not possible to demonstrate without doubt. Hence the birther movement will live on. Apparently newpaper announcements and birth certificates in Hawaii would only require one relative to attest them.

Says who?

[premjan]

That Russian blonde lady.

[hecaterin]

I love the Canadian fake - signed by Dudley Doright, and the birfers actually presented it in court. Ell Oh Fuckin' Ell.