Some neighbors have no clue or care

[crazyfingers]

I was out in the woods in my back yard today. The deer flies are finally gone so I can go in the woods again without being attacked.

My neighbor had decided to cut down two large trees on my property along with some on his.

http://home.comcast.net/~mjdude/pwpimages/IMG_2981a.jpg

The fence exactly marks the border.The photo from inside my property and the property line extends along the fence going forward another several hundred feet into the woods.

Those two stumps are a good 6 feet within our property and so is all that tree rubbish is on my property.

Apparently it happened a month ago ( we were here a month ago). I confronted him today soon after I discovered it. It appears that he was afraid that they would fall into his horse corral and decided to cut them down along with several of his own trees. He says that one was damaged when his trees accidentally fell on it and he decided to get rid of both my trees.

He claims that they were dying but I don't recall them looking sickly.

WTF! You don't just cut down other people's trees. And you certainly don't leave a mess on someone else's property and not come at at least explain!

This is not the first time that he has cut down a tree on our property without asking. He had cut one down on our side of the fence near the house. I didn't say anything that time as it was a shrub type tree that grew back from the stump in a couple of years.

And before that when he was planning his horse barn he had the ridge that extends across both our properties surveyed and left survey markers into my property a good 100 feet. He was angry when I removed the orange eyesores on my property? WTF. No freaking clue.

Anyway, I gave him a serious scolding and at least walked home with a promise that it will never happen again.

Oh and he has a Bush = Palin sticker on his truck.

[LoneWolf]

Yeah, that's messed up. I can understand the concern of falling trees but how difficult is it to ask first?

[munnki]

Oh and he has a Bush = Palin sticker on his truck.

Burn his house down, find all members of his extended family including second and third cousins - see to it that they're spayed and prevented from anything beyond menial labour through brutalization (some kind of blunt force trauma would be best). Render him also incapable of having children, preferably with some kind of garden tool. Then plant in his garden a tree with a sign on wood in front of it saying 'this tree represents hope, hope of a better world'.

It would only be fair...

[Octavia]

Yeah, that's messed up. I can understand the concern of falling trees but how difficult is it to ask first?

Not difficult at all. I mean, what's crazyfingers going to say if they are dangerous? "Nope, leave them up"? I don't think so!

[crazyfingers]

Oh and he has a Bush = Palin sticker on his truck.

Burn his house down, find all members of his extended family including second and third cousins - see to it that they're spayed and prevented from anything beyond menial labour through brutalization (some kind of blunt force trauma would be best). Render him also incapable of having children, preferably with some kind of garden tool. Then plant in his garden a tree with a sign on wood in front of it saying 'this tree represents hope, hope of a better world'.

It would only be fair...

Opps. That was supposed to be McCain-Palin.

[Garnet]

I'd call the police and file a report. That kind of damage on your property is not acceptable in any way.

[crazyfingers]

Yeah, that's messed up. I can understand the concern of falling trees but how difficult is it to ask first?

Not difficult at all. I mean, what's crazyfingers going to say if they are dangerous? "Nope, leave them up"? I don't think so!

That's what I said to him. If they really were dying and/or were even remotely likely to fall in his corral and hurt his horses, I would have agreed without any issues at all. But he needs to ask first. And certainly not just do it and leave me with two stumps and a ton of tree garbage and never say a word.

[munnki]

Oh and he has a Bush = Palin sticker on his truck.

Burn his house down, find all members of his extended family including second and third cousins - see to it that they're spayed and prevented from anything beyond menial labour through brutalization (some kind of blunt force trauma would be best). Render him also incapable of having children, preferably with some kind of garden tool. Then plant in his garden a tree with a sign on wood in front of it saying 'this tree represents hope, hope of a better world'.

It would only be fair...

Opps. That was supposed to be McCain-Palin.

I figured... that's why above was posted...

[crazyfingers]

I'd call the police and file a report. That kind of damage on your property is not acceptable in any way.

I was tempted but I have no plans to move and neither does he. We will likely be sharing a border for another 30 years. I just want him to respect my property.

At least after I scolded him he went down with a chain saw to clear the rubbish off my side.

[Goldie]

My husband is a forester / logger and knows about these things. This guy doesn't have a leg to stand on. Not only should he have to pay to clean up the mess and remove the stumps, he should have to pay to replace those LARGE trees. We are talking thousands!!!
My husband says... "He had no right to do that without asking. Even if they were old snags about to fall over, you ask first. He should file a lawsuit."

After looking at the picture, Chuck says that he left a fire hazard on your property. He says you could nail his ass. That guy is an idiot.

[Jobar]

If he cleans up his mess, I guess I wouldn't push it any further, if I were in your position. However, I'd make it clear to him that you *could* sue him for damages to your property.

Supposedly, good fences make good neighbors- but not if they don't respect those lines!

[Goldie]

If he cleans up his mess, I guess I wouldn't push it any further, if I were in your position. However, I'd make it clear to him that you *could* sue him for damages to your property.

Supposedly, good fences make good neighbors- but not if they don't respect those lines!

He obviously DOESN'T respect you or your property. Yes, you could let it go...but you could also show him just how much his little fuck up could have cost him.
He sounds like a real dick who thinks of no one but himself.

FFS! He could have at least asked! If that caught fire...and you did nothing about the mess...YOU could be held liable.
Get the jerk to at least clean it up.

Apparently his fence isn't the line...so fuck good fences. He doesn't abide by them.

[crazyfingers]

I really don't want to get into legal deals with someone I will probably have to be neighbors with for another 30 years but I do like the idea of pointing out that I could file a suit.

And that fence is exactly on the border. The left side of the post is exactly on the line. The grass that he has planted a foot to my side of the fence is my property. So he is encroaching. This had not bothered me too much because I know the horses do the trimming and I know where the line is. But I realize now that encroachment appears to be the trend and will be a great deal more watchful.

[Loren Pechtel]

I'd call the police and file a report. That kind of damage on your property is not acceptable in any way.

Seconded.

[Loren Pechtel]

I really don't want to get into legal deals with someone I will probably have to be neighbors with for another 30 years but I do like the idea of pointing out that I could file a suit.

And that fence is exactly on the border. The left side of the post is exactly on the line. The grass that he has planted a foot to my side of the fence is my property. So he is encroaching. This had not bothered me too much because I know the horses do the trimming and I know where the line is. But I realize now that encroachment appears to be the trend and will be a great deal more watchful.

If you don't it's just going to happen again.

[BioBeing]

If you let him encroach, after a certain number of years, he can claim that piece of land as his, as I understand it. You gotta put a stop to that.

[Anne]

I'd call the police and file a report. That kind of damage on your property is not acceptable in any way.

Seconded.

What Bio Being said. And thirded.

[crazyfingers]

Hmmm. I'm thinking about it. I appreciate the advice from everyone.

[munnki]

I'm still reeling from imagining what a Bush/Palin ticket would look like... Jesus!

[willynilly]

I can understand not wanting to push things since you will be living next to one another for some time . If he cleaned it up I would post a couple no trespassing signs on the property line and buy two trees and give him the bill. If he moans tell him you'll sue for it then. It nice and sends a message.

[DMB]

If you let him encroach, after a certain number of years, he can claim that piece of land as his, as I understand it. You gotta put a stop to that.

In English law it's known as adverse possession and the time limit is 12 years.

I think he should at least pay for planting two trees of your choice, including labour.

[crazyfingers]

Doing a little research. I called the police and asked them what would happen if I asked them to come to my house so that I can report property damage and illegally dumping a mess on my property.

They said that they would if I asked them to but advised that if I don't want to actually have the guy charged with property damage that I first talk to the town building inspector who could come over and explain the law to my neighbor and explain what could happen to him under the law.

PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT

TITLE XIV. PUBLIC WAYS AND WORKS

CHAPTER 87. SHADE TREES

Chapter 87: Section 11. Injury to trees of another person

Section 11. Whoever wilfully, maliciously or wantonly cuts, destroys or injures a tree, shrub or growth which is not his own, standing for any useful purpose, shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than six months or by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/87-11.htm

PART III. COURTS, JUDICIAL OFFICERS AND PROCEEDINGS IN CIVIL CASES

TITLE III. REMEDIES RELATING TO REAL PROPERTY

CHAPTER 242. WASTE AND TRESPASS

Chapter 242: Section 7. Willful trespass to trees, etc.; damages

Section 7. A person who without license willfully cuts down, carries away, girdles or otherwise destroys trees, timber, wood or underwood on the land of another shall be liable to the owner in tort for three times the amount of the damages assessed therefor; but if it is found that the defendant had good reason to believe that the land on which the trespass was committed was his own or that he was otherwise lawfully authorized to do the acts complained of, he shall be liable for single damages only.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/242-7.htm

[Febble]

Golly.

[Puck]

Most homeowners insurance covers the loss of trees for a reason. They are of value. Really, this jerk owes you the money for those trees. I'd keep a very close eye on things from now on. If he does one more nasty thing, I'd make sure he has to move his fence to the proper position, and reimburse you for your loss.

[crazyfingers]

Well he reacted to my scolding yesterday. He cleaned up some of the mess but I want the stumps cut down to the ground while not harming the remaining smaller trees in the cluster. They are ash trees of course and make the very best firewood. Where is my firewood?

http://home.comcast.net/~mjdude/pwpimages/IMG_2983a.jpg

I don't have time the next couple of days to speak with him but I have some print outs of the law and lawyer stuff and will tell him that I want the stumps down to the ground and that I want my firewood. He clearly has plenty of wood from his own that he cut down.

Depending on his reactions I may let loose that I spoke to the police and that they will come down and charge him with the crime of illegally cutting trees that are not his if he doesn't make amends.

I also spoke with the building inspector today and he was shocked that he did it. I need to call him back. While I'm certain that the fence is exactly on the line, I do want to get a confirmation as I'm considering using some roundup on the grass that's on my property. I prefer natural in my woods.

[Notta]

Oh and he has a Bush = Palin sticker on his truck.

Burn his house down, find all members of his extended family including second and third cousins - see to it that they're spayed and prevented from anything beyond menial labour through brutalization (some kind of blunt force trauma would be best). Render him also incapable of having children, preferably with some kind of garden tool. Then plant in his garden a tree with a sign on wood in front of it saying 'this tree represents hope, hope of a better world'.

It would only be fair...I wanted to say this, too, but am leery of the secret police showing up at my door...

[Gaojie]

Most homeowners insurance covers the loss of trees for a reason. They are of value. Really, this jerk owes you the money for those trees. I'd keep a very close eye on things from now on. If he does one more nasty thing, I'd make sure he has to move his fence to the proper position, and reimburse you for your loss.

I'm not sure of the law, but it might be a good idea to find out if he can actually put the fence right on the line. He may be required to move it over a bit.

[crazyfingers]

I'm surprised. He actually did cut the two stumps down to the ground today and left me wood short enough to chop into firewood. :eek:

I guess that I won't have to yell at him again and won't have to call the cops.

But I will pass along to him my printouts on the laws and the penalties for cutting trees that don't belong to him and will let him know that if it happens again I will call the police and/or get a lawyer. I still have all the evidence I need on this incident.

[BioBeing]

What a relief. Fighting with a neighbour is not good.

Old English saying: Good fences make good neighbours.

[Garrett]

Storms knock down more trees than the neighbor did, and it's hard to ask permission when the owner is gone for weeks at a time. And the tree-killer is responding well to simple communication. Not sure there is a bad neighbor here. But I better not say so.

[Valheru]

I'd love to have you as a neighbour, Garrett. I'd have so much fun! :D

[Valheru]

Old English saying: Good fences make good neighbours.

Old South African saying: I see your fences and raise you a set of 300W subwoofers :mad:

[crazyfingers]

Storms knock down more trees than the neighbor did, and it's hard to ask permission when the owner is gone for weeks at a time. And the tree-killer is responding well to simple communication. Not sure there is a bad neighbor here. But I better not say so.

I'd say that he didn't think and didn't show concern for boundaries. The trees were in no danger of falling until he started this. He cut them in August when we were here, not away on vacation. One he cut down when he damaged it when his healthy tree that he was cutting down fell onto my tree. He managed to avoid damaging his fence taking down his trees. He should also have taken care not to damage my tree. That shouldn't have happened. He should have stopped right there and come talk to me.

The second he just cut down because he wanted to cut it down.

And then to not say a word about it for a month and to leave it a mess for a month until I discovered it shows an unbelievable lack of respect for the property rights of others.

However, it appears that he may have taken a lesson from this. I hope so.

[Valheru]

I'd sue his ass.

[Celsus]

It seems likely that he didn't know the legal implications of what he'd done (neither did you at first), and is doing what he can to make up quietly - it's likely he spoke to someone also well versed on the law and realised just how much for which he could potentially be liable. But given he seems to be responding well, I think it's worth burying the hatchet (oh no bad pun) since he's following your terms without complaint.

[crazyfingers]

It seems likely that he didn't know the legal implications of what he'd done (neither did you at first), and is doing what he can to make up quietly - it's likely he spoke to someone also well versed on the law and realised just how much for which he could potentially be liable. But given he seems to be responding well, I think it's worth burying the hatchet (oh no bad pun) since he's following your terms without complaint.

I think that what you say is probably true. But I do want to talk to him once more about it. I'll probably thank him for taking care of the situation but also make sure that it can never happen again. This is not the first time that he cut one of my trees down. The first time it was a buffer tree between our two houses and not way out in the woods.

[Celsus]

Yeah, definitely worth sitting down with him, being friendly but firm, saying you wouldn't want to "have" to file charges against him for damages to your property... etc. But not in a confrontational way, that's all I meant.

[BWE]

I'd call the police and file a report. That kind of damage on your property is not acceptable in any way.

I was tempted but I have no plans to move and neither does he. We will likely be sharing a border for another 30 years. I just want him to respect my property.

At least after I scolded him he went down with a chain saw to clear the rubbish off my side.

Fights with neighbors, otoh, suck kind of alot. Stupidity tends not to curable. I bring fresh eggs and tomatoes to all my neighbors fairly regularly so that none of them want to make me mad and stop the flow of free goods. :p

[Jobar]

I'd do it the same way you are. While you might be able to really stick it to him in court, a lifetime feud with a next-door neighbor is something that may wind up costing you more in the long run.

Do let him know, though, that three strikes is out- and his count is 0 and 2.

[Josie]

I'd call the police and file a report. That kind of damage on your property is not acceptable in any way.

I was tempted but I have no plans to move and neither does he. We will likely be sharing a border for another 30 years. I just want him to respect my property.

At least after I scolded him he went down with a chain saw to clear the rubbish off my side.

Fights with neighbors, otoh, suck kind of alot. Stupidity tends not to curable. I bring fresh eggs and tomatoes to all my neighbors fairly regularly so that none of them want to make me mad and stop the flow of free goods. :p


No, if they piss you off, you don't stop the eggs and tomatoes, you just hold them an extra week, then deliver them to the side of the house. :evil:

[dancer_rnb]

Even fresh eggs delievered to the side of the house would be annoying......

[Ray Moscow]

Fights with neighbors, otoh, suck kind of alot. Stupidity tends not to curable. I bring fresh eggs and tomatoes to all my neighbors fairly regularly so that none of them want to make me mad and stop the flow of free goods. :p

I agree with this approach.

But having someone trash your property is too far. It needs reporting to the police, IMO.

[crazyfingers]

I finally had a chance to talk to the neighbor again today. I thanked him for cleaning up the mess. He was very apologetic. I said that I thought that we could put the incident past us if he'd deliver the rest of my fire wood. He was very agreeable to cutting the rest of my wood to chopping size lengths and stacking it at the border for me to get. I like chop firewood anyway.

It appears that he did look up the law as he said that he is now aware that cutting trees that belong to others is a crime punishable by up to 6 months in jail and 3x damages.

I don't think that anything like this will happen again.

[Jobar]

From curiosity, how old is this guy? And how long has he been living there?

In any case, it looks like you avoided a feud. If he has good sense, he'll tread very, very lightly any time he gets close to your property from now on!

[crazyfingers]

From curiosity, how old is this guy? And how long has he been living there?



I'd guess not far from my age. Late 40's. Maybe early 50's.

I don;t know how long he has been there. He was there when we bought the house 12 years ago. But at the time he had woods there next to mine. He only cleared the land, put up the fence and got horses about 4-5 years ago.

My trees were there before the fence and the horses anyway.

What are you pondering?

[Ray Moscow]

I finally had a chance to talk to the neighbor again today. I thanked him for cleaning up the mess. He was very apologetic. I said that I thought that we could put the incident past us if he'd deliver the rest of my fire wood. He was very agreeable to cutting the rest of my wood to chopping size lengths and stacking it at the border for me to get. I like chop firewood anyway.

It appears that he did look up the law as he said that he is now aware that cutting trees that belong to others is a crime punishable by up to 6 months in jail and 3x damages.

I don't think that anything like this will happen again.

Sounds good.

Take him something from your garden or something baked sometime soon to progress the friendship.

I'd rather have a friend than an enemy, any day.

[Cath B]

I finally had a chance to talk to the neighbor again today. I thanked him for cleaning up the mess. He was very apologetic. I said that I thought that we could put the incident past us if he'd deliver the rest of my fire wood. He was very agreeable to cutting the rest of my wood to chopping size lengths and stacking it at the border for me to get. I like chop firewood anyway.

It appears that he did look up the law as he said that he is now aware that cutting trees that belong to others is a crime punishable by up to 6 months in jail and 3x damages.

I don't think that anything like this will happen again.

Sounds good.

Take him something from your garden or something baked sometime soon to progress the friendship.

I'd rather have a friend than an enemy, any day.

Yes

[crazyfingers]

I finally had a chance to talk to the neighbor again today. I thanked him for cleaning up the mess. He was very apologetic. I said that I thought that we could put the incident past us if he'd deliver the rest of my fire wood. He was very agreeable to cutting the rest of my wood to chopping size lengths and stacking it at the border for me to get. I like chop firewood anyway.

It appears that he did look up the law as he said that he is now aware that cutting trees that belong to others is a crime punishable by up to 6 months in jail and 3x damages.

I don't think that anything like this will happen again.

Sounds good.

Take him something from your garden or something baked sometime soon to progress the friendship.

I'd rather have a friend than an enemy, any day.

Yes

We don't have a garden and don't ever really bake. But I'll make it a point to try to have more conversations with him. He and his wife are extremely non talkative. They don't talk with any of the other neighbors around the street. People actually comment on that.

Fortunately my other neighbor is very friendly and also very big on consulting on issues around our mutual border, as am I.

[Jobar]

From curiosity, how old is this guy? And how long has he been living there?



I'd guess not far from my age. Late 40's. Maybe early 50's.

I don;t know how long he has been there. He was there when we bought the house 12 years ago. But at the time he had woods there next to mine. He only cleared the land, put up the fence and got horses about 4-5 years ago.

My trees were there before the fence and the horses anyway.

What are you pondering?

I was just wondering how much practice he had in being a neighbor. If he was young, and/or hadn't owned property all that long, it might explain his cluelessness in situations like this one.

[crazyfingers]

I was just wondering how much practice he had in being a neighbor. If he was young, and/or hadn't owned property all that long, it might explain his cluelessness in situations like this one.

Ah yes. Well. No excuses there I'm afraid. Though this was a learning experience anyway.

[Ray Moscow]

The garden or baking are just two ideas (almost everyone likes fresh tomatoes or corn or an apple pie). You'll probably find something else they like that you can share with them.

We like to share a few things like that with our neighbours, who keep an eye on things while we're out.

But if they don't talk much or share any of your interests, that might be hard.

[Valheru]

I seconds the baking idea. Make it something, err, almond flavoured :evil: