Sign the anti-socialist pledge!

[Notta]

From Pharyngula and PZ Myers: (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/09/as_for_me_i_love_socialism.php)I pledge to eliminate all government intervention in my life. I will abstain from the use of and participation in any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following:
Social Security
Medicare/Medicaid
State Children's Health Insurance Programs (SCHIP)
Police, Fire, and Emergency Services
US Postal Service
Roads and Highways
Air Travel (regulated by the socialist FAA)
The US Railway System
Public Subways and Metro Systems
Public Bus and Lightrail Systems
Rest Areas on Highways
Sidewalks
All Government-Funded Local/State Projects (e.g., see Iowa 2009federal senate appropriations--http://grassley.senate.gov/issues/upload/Master-Approps-73109.pdf)
Public Water and Sewer Services (goodbye socialist toilet, shower, dishwasher, kitchen sink, outdoor hose!)
Public and State Universities and Colleges
Public Primary and Secondary Schools
Sesame Street
Publicly Funded Anti-Drug Use Education for Children
Public Museums
Libraries
Public Parks and Beaches
State and National Parks
Public Zoos
Unemployment Insurance
Municipal Garbage and Recycling Services
Treatment at Any Hospital or Clinic That Ever Received Funding From Local, State or Federal Government (pretty much all of them)
Medical Services and Medications That Were Created or Derived From Any Government Grant or Research Funding (again, pretty much all of them)
Socialist Byproducts of Government Investment Such as Duct Tape and Velcro (Nazi-NASA Inventions)
Use of the Internets, email, and networked computers, as the DoD's ARPANET was the basis for subsequent computer networking
Foodstuffs, Meats, Produce and Crops That Were Grown With, Fed With, Raised With or That Contain Inputs From Crops Grown With Government Subsidies
Clothing Made from Crops (e.g. cotton) That Were Grown With or That Contain Inputs From Government Subsidies
If a veteran of the government-run socialist US military, I will forgo my VA benefits and insist on paying for my own medical care
Goddamn socialists!! Trying to take over MY country!! You should read the whole post. It's a classic!

[Garnet]

This is what I got when I clicked on the link:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
- <response>
<error>1</error>
<message>Trackback pings must use HTTP POST</message>
</response>

[lpetrich]

Here's a working version: As for me, I love socialism! (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/09/as_for_me_i_love_socialism.php)

I use the CoLT (Copy Link Text) add-on for Firefox, and I can get a link URL and text with

Right-click on it > Copy Link Location and Text As > BB Code

I went to that blog entry and did that on the title, and got the link that you see in my post.

[Garnet]

Thanks for the good link, Loren.

[Mediancat]

Just sent that to a conservative friend of my father's who sends me all the conservative mail and jokes.

(He's an amiable old bastard; he does it half because he believes it and half to annoy me. I respond in kind and no one's offended.)

Rob

[Jobar]

Commentary on senses of humor sent to here. (http://www.secularcafe.org/showthread.php?t=3392)

[Ray Moscow]

That's what gets me in US political conversation: most people don't understand what "socialism" means.

It reminds me of my time in Yugoslavia before their civil war started in 1991. As a friend of mine put it, "We have people ready to fight and die over whether we should be a 'federation' or a 'confederation' who cannot explain what either term means."

And die many of them did.

[sohy]

Thank you. My husband is going to send it to an old college friend that has become a crazy screaming right wing idiot. The guy is on social security disability.

[willynilly]

Take out the bible and some things the Constitution allows for and I would sign it.

[Ray Moscow]

Then why are you still on the socialistic internets? ;)

[willynilly]

Last time I checked I pay a good bit of money to be on the internet.

[Daydream]

That's a hilarious post from Pharyngula and PZ Myers!

[Notta]

I saw a film last week of a teabagger meeting in Florida, and when a reporter asked a participant why she was protesting, she said Obama was a socialist - or a fascist, she didn't know which. When asked what a socialist was, she couldn't say. When asked what a fascist was, she didn't know.

If you're going to protest against something, at least know THE DEFINITIONS OF THE WORDS ON YOUR SIGN!!!

[premjan]

Jesus told her she needed to get angry - doesn't matter about what.

[willynilly]

I must be confused. First off the government doesn't go work for money to provide these services my taxes help pay for them. So the money going into them is part mine so why can't I use them. I also don't really care if someone who uses them isn't paying into them, like children or seniors or those not able to work. I also have to actually pay to use most of these as well as my taxes going to them. I have to pay for a bus fare, entrance to zoo, water, electric, etc. So maybe I don't understand how they are socialist other then they are available to everyone? I don't have a problem with universal health care other then the VA runs like shit. I must be missing something, is any program the government runs or subsidies socialist?

[frazier]

I must be missing something, is any program the government runs or subsidies socialist?
Socialism
Socialism refers to various theories of economic organisation advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterised by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation.
I think the use of the term in the OP concentrates on the bolded part, while glossing over or ignoring details like "direct worker ownership".

That said, I think that the scare tactics emanating from the right wing also use the definition inappropriately, so it seems fair to hit them with a dose of irony.

[diana]

Considering that the Right has been calling all the plans so far--which all want to provide a government option and to subsidize those who can't afford health insurance, but not take over health insurance completely--"socialist," the Pledge is a solid rebuttal.

d

[willynilly]

I understood some programs as socialist and some I consider government owned business. In that the later actually makes profit for the city while providing a service. Guess I better read up.

[Mechanical Bliss]

I saw a film last week of a teabagger meeting in Florida, and when a reporter asked a participant why she was protesting, she said Obama was a socialist - or a fascist, she didn't know which. When asked what a socialist was, she couldn't say. When asked what a fascist was, she didn't know.

If you're going to protest against something, at least know THE DEFINITIONS OF THE WORDS ON YOUR SIGN!!!

And that's not an isolated occurrence. It's also why racism is an assumed motivation for some of this nonsense. After all, if they don't even know what their displayed reason for protesting is, the fact that they're protesting at all means there is some genuine motivation there, but their overt claim as to their motivation is simply a lie.

It's silly to think that racism has no involvement whatsoever in these protests, just like it's silly to think that it all boils down to racism, though I have yet to see the latter claim. Not even Carter's statement alleges that it all boils down to racism. But it's not unreasonable to assume that some of it does.

But for some of these people, they aren't actually protesting socialism and aren't simply protesting because of a difference in opinion over policy matters. It's something much more superficial than that--thus statements about how they want their nation back because Obama took it away from them. Maybe they're protesting because their candidate lost, the president is a Democrat, the president is a "liberal" (which is a liberal use of the word liberal, really), or perhaps, just perhaps, because of the president's skin color. But for some, or even many of these people, it's clearly not some well thought out reason.

[Blueskyboris]

I haven't had time to formally join this forum with my BSB handle (I tried with my secondary handle, but was rejected; I guess you guys thought I was Mason trying to troll), and hadn't had a reason until I found this thread. My future apologies. Feel free to blame Notta in the ensuing months to come.

Anyway, PZ Myers' list misses two important, almost central institutions of "socialism": The Catholic Church and the Institution of Marriage (I hesitate to call protestant churches socialistic, because I haven't given it enough thought, but I'm pretty sure they are). The Catholic Church has its own government, is protected by government, and is in the business of charity. It is therefore the result of "socialism" if we take the Right's definition seriously. Similarly, the Institution of Marriage is protected by government and bestows, upon any man and woman who are married, certain economic and sexual rights which are socialistic. Therefore, when the conservatives and libertarians think they are defending some fundamental institution of their individualistic/responsiblistic creed when they defend the Institution of Marriage, or even the CC, they are actually defending one of the the earliest manifestations of "socialism".

They are hypocrites.

[Jobar]

Some of the earliest Christian churches espoused principles remarkably like communist ones. See some of Paul's letters in the NT. Wonder how it would go over if we called Christianity a communist plot?

[Blueskyboris]

Yes, I know, Jobar, but my point is that no one on the left or center is hammering this point home, especially the point that marriage is a form of socialism if we take the libertarian definition seriously.

[Daynna]

I liked the signs that showed Obama with gigantic ears and the ones with Oprah holding the strings of an Obama puppet. What?

[Garnet]

I can't be arsed to look up the supporting verses in the Bible now, but the early Christian communities are indeed an example of communism. Why were Ananais and Saphira killed?

[lpetrich]

Here it is:
All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.

Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means Son of Encouragement), sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles' feet.

Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet.

Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?"

"Yes," she said, "that is the price."

Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also."

At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

Acts 4:32-5:10, NIV
They were not only communists, they were also Stalinists.

In effect, God had zapped Ananias and Sapphira because they had been troublesome kulaks who refused to collectivize their property.

[diana]

No worries, Garnet. I just looked it up a couple of hours ago thanks to a discussion I'm having on FB with my Christian anti-communism cousin. Here you go....

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism:

Christian communists trace the origins of their practice to the New Testament book Acts of the Apostles at chapter 2 and verses 42, 44, and 45:

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.43 Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things in common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. (King James Version)

The theme is reiterated in Acts 4:32-37:

32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. 36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, 37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet. (King James Version)


(I ended by asking whether, as a Christian, she was pro- or anti-communism. This should be interesting....)

d

(cross-post with Loren :) )

[Garnet]

Y'all are the awesome sauce. :D