Turkish science journal forced to pull Darwin article; editor sacked

[Oolon Colluphid]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/15/turkey-charles-darwin
Bilim ve Teknik (Science and Technology) withdrew the 16-page feature from this month's issue under orders from its publisher, the state-run Turkish Scientific and Technological Research Council (Tubitak). The magazine's editor, Cigdem Atakuman, was also sacked for "exceeding her authority" by commissioning the article, which Tubitak said was "not planned or scientifically evaluated beforehand".

From Hürriyet:
www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/11214930.asp?gid=244
In the face of the criticism, that pulling the story was at best unscientific and at worst an act of censorship, the Scientific and Technical Research Council of Turkey, or TÜBİTAK, has blamed the editor for whole affair, arguing that the story was withdrawn because it was changed at the last minute and rushed. However, editor-in-chief of the council’s magazine Bilim ve Teknik (Science and Technology), Dr. Çiğdem Atakuman, said she was told by the deputy head of the institution, Professor Ömer Cebeci, that using Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution as the cover story for the March edition of the magazine was too controversial and that she could no longer be trusted to responsibly perform her duties.

[DMB]

If this happens in Turkey, what hope is there for other islamic countries?

[Ray Moscow]

If this happens in Turkey, what hope is there for other islamic countries?

Well, Turkey is secular, or rather it used to be.

There's never been any hope for science education in actual Islamic countries. Science never goes anywhere if you have to preface every observation with "if God wills, then ...".

[DMB]

Yes. I like "2+2, by the grace of Allah, =4". :rolling:

[Ray Moscow]

Yes. I like "2+2, by the grace of Allah, =4". :rolling:

If Allah wills, 2+2 = 4. If He wills it not, it is otherwise.

It is a simple thing for Allah to make 2+2 = 5 or 10. He need only command it, and it is so.

Say not that pure water at atmospheric pressure boils at 100 degrees Celsius. Say rather, if Allah wills, pure water at atmospheric pressure boils at 100 degrees Celsius. If Allah wills it to become ice instead, than ice it shall become.

Do you know the mind of Allah? Therefore, predict not, and presume not upon Allah.

[Mediancat]

Hell, we can do that, if we try.

Two haystacks plus two haystacks = 1 haystack. So 2+2=1.

What've we got that Allah hasn't got?

Rob

[Ray Moscow]

Hell, we can do that, if we try.

Two haystacks plus two haystacks = 1 haystack. So 2+2=1.

What've we got that Allah hasn't got?

Rob

A billion or so irrational and easily provoked followers?

Oh, wait, that's what Allah's got and we haven't.

[Oolon Colluphid]

Well, Turkey is secular, or rather it used to be.
Excellent, in-depth article: The Rise of Political Islam in Turkey (http://rand.org/pubs/monographs/2008/RAND_MG726.pdf) (pdf)

And don't forget that Richard Dawkins's site is (was?) banned in Turkey (http://richarddawkins.net/article,3128,Turkey-bans-biologist-Richard-Dawkins-website,Monsters-and-Critics), and that Harun Yahya is based there.

[Uthgar the Brazen]

While things like this should encourage me to become more engaged, it's having quite the opposite effect. The more I see that people are intractably fearful and stupid, the less I'm inclined to even acknowledge I'm a member of the same species much less work against error. I find myself wanting for us, in my view selected for extinction (depending on utterly unscientific indicators), to hurry up and...end.

[Brother Daniel]

There's never been any hope for science education in actual Islamic countries.
"Never" is too strong.

No hope in the last 1000 years or so. :D

[DMB]

Taner Edis (who is of Turkish origin) wrote an interesting book about Islam and science:

http://www.amazon.com/Illusion-Harmony-Science-Religion-Islam/dp/1591024498/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237222379&sr=1-3

The book mainly focuses on Turkey.

But IMO the best book on this subject is rather hard to get hold of, but very good and that is by Pervez Hoodbhoy, who is one of my heroes:

http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Science-Religious-Orthodoxy-Rationality/dp/1856490254/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237222519&sr=1-1

[ck1]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/15/turkey-charles-darwin


From Hürriyet:
www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/11214930.asp?gid=244

Neither of those articles says anything really specific about the pulled article except that it was a celebration of the work of Darwin. Wonder what it actually said.

At least there was this from the second link:

Turkey Sciences Academy released a strong statement over the weekend, describing the theory of evolution as a scientific fact that could not be ignored. "The fact cannot be subverted or obstructed," it said.


ETA: Interestingly, the magazine replaced the Darwin article with another on a noncontroversial subject - Global Warming!

[HinduWoman]

They might as well as change the name of the council to Islamic Scientific and Technological Research Council.

On the other hand teaching evolution do not seem to make any dent in the superstitions of average Hindu.
They believe in evolution all right but never think about the implications.

[Lisa0315]

Very cool.

[ck1]

The WSJ today has a front page article about Adnan Oktar, otherwise known as Harun Yahya:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123724852205449221.html?mod=yahoo_itp&ru=yahoo

A recent survey found that only a quarter of students entering Turkish universities accept Darwin's theory of evolution and that the proportion is much the same when they graduate. The findings, says Prof. Kence, are "very depressing."

The article argues that creationism is not an Islamic concept, but is a "Christian import". It also says that creationism has won support among educated wealthy Turks and is gaining support.

It is not clear how Oktar funds his activities.

The article points out that one of the images of lifeforms in Oktar's "Atlas of Creation" is a man-made fishing fly. Oktar says this is a "little detail." Oktar has studied interior design (not biology), according to the article.

His challenge to Dawkins for a debate has been ignored, and Dawkins explains why.

[ck1]

Perhaps OT. I read some of the comments on that WSJ article. I expected to find smart people. I found a lot of creationists. Depressing.

[Albion]

It's interesting how Christian creationists, who are all about winning the world for Jesus, are advising and apparently helping fund Islamic creationists, who presumably are not all about winning the world for Jesus. Apparently the common foe (us) is quite a unifying force.

As to the WSJ and its followers, a right-wing paper is bound to have a bunch of creationist followers. Doesn't it standardly support ID rather than actual science?

[DMB]

If you go to this page http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/indexEvents.html

click on CEMB's First Conference and then on videos, as you scroll down the page you will find a video of Dawkins shredding Harun Yahyah. (Sorry I can't give a direct link.)

[ck1]

As to the WSJ and its followers, a right-wing paper is bound to have a bunch of creationist followers. Doesn't it standardly support ID rather than actual science?

Now that you mention it, I seem to recall several articles in the WSJ by DI fellow David Klinghoffer.