French Physicist wins Templeton Prize

[RBH]

From the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/science/17briefs-14MILLIONPRI_BRF.html?ref=world):Bernard d’Espagnat, 87, a French physicist and philosopher of science, has won the $1.4 million Templeton Prize for his work on the philosophical implications of quantum mechanics, the John Templeton Foundation said Monday in Paris. Noting that the rules governing the behavior of subatomic particles contravene common-sense notions of reality, Dr. d’Espagnat, a professor emeritus at the University of Paris-Sud, coined the term “veiled reality” to describe a world beyond appearances, which science can only glimpse and which he said could be compatible with “higher forms of spirituality.”"Veiled reality." Yup. God is hiding down amongst the quarks.

ETA: More on his views from Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSTRE52F2GC20090316):Classical physics developed by Isaac Newton believes it can describe the world through laws of nature that it knows or will discover. But quantum physics shows that tiny particles defy this logic and can act in indeterminate ways.

D'Espagnat says this points toward a reality beyond the reach of empirical science. The human intuitions in art, music and spirituality can bring us closer to this ultimate reality, but it is so mysterious we cannot know or even imagine it.

"Mystery is not something negative that has to be eliminated," he said. "On the contrary, it is one of the constitutive elements of being."andIn an interview on Friday, d'Espagnat told Reuters he was brought up a Roman Catholic but did not practice any religion and considered himself a spiritualist.Hm. A "spiritualist." I hope that's not in the Conan Doyle sense! And what does "the constitutive elements of being" mean? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Or is he saying that reality, as represented at the quantum level, is intrinsically mysterious and all those young guys at CERN (where he used to be a senior physicist) might as well give up and go skiing.

And finally, this tidbit:"I believe we ultimately come from a superior entity to which awe and respect is due and which we shouldn't try to approach by trying to conceptualize too much," he said. "It's more a question of feeling."Ignorance is bliss, apparently.

[BWE]

Mark my words on whatever the date is right now:

I am going to win a templeton.

Nuff said.

I'll have a great celebration party, you're all invited.

[DMB]

It looks as though it needs to join that wonderful list of reasons why god exists (http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm).

Subatomic particles are mysterious and beyond common sense;
God is mysterious and beyond common sense;
Therefore God exists! :yay:

[Uthgar the Brazen]

It looks as though it needs to join that wonderful list of reasons why god exists (http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm).

Subatomic particles are mysterious and beyond common sense;
God is mysterious and beyond common sense;
Therefore God exists! :yay:

This also works for Klingons! :yay:

[BWE]

You'll be singing a different tune when I get one.


And dancing on the tables at my party.

[DMB]

Well, you may have competition. I think it was in The God Delusion that Dawkins said he told his wife that if he was old and running out of money, he'd go for a Templeton. I bet they'd give him one like a shot, too.

[HinduWoman]

Quantum mechanics contravene common sense reality and so God exists?

Is he conceding that God's existence is against every common sense?
Hang on, didn't it already happen when it was proved the earth moves round the sun though everyone could see that the sun moves round?

[Ray Moscow]

Favourite reference for this year's winner: The Very Tiny God of Very, Very, Very Small Things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_of_Small_Things)

Don't scare the little feller!

[DMB]

Don't forget that this guy is French. It could be a sort of reverse Sokal affair

[BWE]

Well, you may have competition. I think it was in The God Delusion that Dawkins said he told his wife that if he was old and running out of money, he'd go for a Templeton. I bet they'd give him one like a shot, too.

is he running out of money?
:)

[DMB]

is he running out of money?
:)

Who knows? I expect his investments, like everyone else's, have been badly hit by the recession/depression.

[Lady Mondegreen]

"The Emperors New Mind" by Penrose was based on the same silly idea - the since quantum physics is mysterious and the human mind is mysterious they must be related. The Templeton prize-winning nonsense is just a rehash of the God of the gaps. But just consider how far science has pushed that particular God if they have to seek him now not among the stars but down among the quarks and gluons.

[lpetrich]

I looked at Bernard d’Espagnat's arguments, and they seem extremely weak. Whatever happened to the sort of gods that various sacred books describe, who make themselves very apparent?

And I don't think that Richard Dawkins is running out of money -- he was asking about what would happen if he did in an entirely hypothetical way.

[BWE]

"The Emperors New Mind" by Penrose was based on the same silly idea - the since quantum physics is mysterious and the human mind is mysterious they must be related. The Templeton prize-winning nonsense is just a rehash of the God of the gaps. But just consider how far science has pushed that particular God if they have to seek him now not among the stars but down among the quarks and gluons.

That'll get me a templeton you think? I'm on it.

BTW, I liked The emperor's new mind. I think he adequately labeled his speculation and he does a hella good job with math. :D

[Jobar]

Me, I plan to write a book about how atheism and theism are the poles of a unity, and how pantheism can unify those opposites. I bet that'll ring the bell! :D

[BWE]

I just need to sign up. You think I'm joking don't you? :D Nope. Not joking.

[Berthold]

I think it was in The God Delusion that Dawkins said he told his wife that if he was old and running out of money, he'd go for a Templeton.
Paul Davies isn't even very old.

And, as far as I know, he is not a theist in any conventional sense.

[DMB]

I think it was in The God Delusion that Dawkins said he told his wife that if he was old and running out of money, he'd go for a Templeton.
Paul Davies isn't even very old.

And, as far as I know, he is not a theist in any conventional sense.

He may need the money.

[Sodong]

From the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/science/17briefs-14MILLIONPRI_BRF.html?ref=world):Bernard d’Espagnat, 87, a French physicist and philosopher of science, has won the $1.4 million Templeton Prize for his work on the philosophical implications of quantum mechanics, the John Templeton Foundation said Monday in Paris. Noting that the rules governing the behavior of subatomic particles contravene common-sense notions of reality, Dr. d’Espagnat, a professor emeritus at the University of Paris-Sud, coined the term “veiled reality” to describe a world beyond appearances, which science can only glimpse and which he said could be compatible with “higher forms of spirituality.”"Veiled reality." Yup. God is hiding down amongst the quarks. Funny. I don't know much about the philisophical implications or quarks for that matter but I work with photons five or more days a week and events at this scale are subject to quantum interpretation. You'd think I'd'a caught a glimpse of the old bugger by now if he's hiding around here somewhere. He'd best watch out for those femtosecond pulses!

ETA: More on his views from Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSTRE52F2GC20090316):Classical physics developed by Isaac Newton believes it can describe the world through laws of nature that it knows or will discover. But quantum physics shows that tiny particles defy this logic and can act in indeterminate ways.In my field we quantify and account for this uncertainty and it only matters when an average intensity (photons/p/t) value is low and noise high. Even then, it never seems to cause civilization and the whole universe as we know it to be changed in any perceivable way :)

D'Espagnat says this points toward a reality beyond the reach of empirical science.Nonsense. First of all, the laws of quantum mechanics apply to subatomic particles not human cultural constructs. Secondly, empirical science is able to reach into this reality. Photons are routinely manipulated to produce reliable quantitative results. No woo ever seems to follow or precede any of these quantum events that I've noticed. Perhaps others have seen something and will speak up :dunno: The human intuitions in art, music and spirituality can bring us closer to this ultimate reality, but it is so mysterious we cannot know or even imagine it.If practiced for long enough, yes :D

"Mystery is not something negative that has to be eliminated," he said. "On the contrary, it is one of the constitutive elements of being."Quite, and likely one of the things that compels us to understand more about life, the universe and everything, though I'm told the answer is 42 (didn't the question turn out to be wrong?)[quote]In an interview on Friday, d'Espagnat told Reuters he was brought up a Roman Catholic but did not practice any religion and considered himself a spiritualist.Hm. A "spiritualist." I hope that's not in the Conan Doyle sense! And what does "the constitutive elements of being" mean? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Or is he saying that reality, as represented at the quantum level, is intrinsically mysterious and all those young guys at CERN (where he used to be a senior physicist) might as well give up and go skiing.That's a good question because even if we are always uncertain about the measurement of subatomic particles beyond a quantifiable limit it has little impact in our ability to manipulate and measure things at this scale with an acceptable degree of accuracy and repeatability.

And finally, this tidbit:"I believe we ultimately come from a superior entity to which awe and respect is due and which we shouldn't try to approach by trying to conceptualize too much,"lol he said. "It's more a question of feeling."Ignorance is bliss, apparently.Could be, I suppose. There's an apple-cart full of woo out there about the interpretation of quantum mechanics or "reality". It shouldn't be surprising that such a significant change in scientific knowledge regarding the subatomic world manifests itself in popular cultural metaphors about nature. Newtonian physics engendered popular nature metaphors that were mechanistic and required the "soul" or "spirit" to enhabit a machine-like body. D'Espagnat's view seems little different. The current popular metaphor is solid state rather than mechanical but it makes little difference whether god or spirit resides in a biomechanical vessel or among the photons and other small stuff ya cain't see. Come out, come out wherever you are...

[Febble]

Mark my words on whatever the date is right now:

I am going to win a templeton.

Nuff said.

I'll have a great celebration party, you're all invited.

You're serious, aren't you?

[BWE]

Mark my words on whatever the date is right now:

I am going to win a templeton.

Nuff said.

I'll have a great celebration party, you're all invited.

You're serious, aren't you?

yep.

[BWE]

Just a bit of brand positioning in different markets might do it. We'll see. I've checked it out with some of the people I work with and they can see how I could do it.