my yard - what is the best weed killer

[miss djax]

hey all,

i'm posting here because i know for some, a yard is practically a full contact spectator sport :D

so i live in phoenix, and i'm trying to kill my grass. went on vacay, came back to 2 feet tall weeks (it rained alot. we have uber psycho weeds that grow with a hint of rain. give it the real deal and its all over)

so i quickly mowed it, and sprayed with roundup. is it really the best out there? truth be told i hate giving monsanto my money.

sooo goal is to kill all the weeds, drop some fill dirt on top, do the weed fabric, plant some indigenous native plants, and then have rock on top. get a cool desert yard thing going on and call it a day. eventually ;)

is fill dirt cheap? i need enough to cover 5,000 sq ft, give or take. and is my plan silly or is there a better way?

tia :)

[Ray Moscow]

I thought Roundup was for broad-leaf plants.

The anti-weed fabric might be a better alternative, if you can live without a lawn for a season. Then replant some native plants so that you don't need to water much.

ETA: Wikipedia says that Roundup is "broad spectrum". (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup) It can poison some invertebrates but supposedly degrades quickly. Personally I would consider this sort of thing as a last resort.

[Josie]

Around here, fill dirt isn't cheap, but it isn't too outrageously priced, but that is just going to bring in a new load of weed seeds with it.

Not sure what the best option would be for you, in that climate. I know how to deal with snow and cold, not deserts.

[miss djax]

trust me there's almost no grass, its green but only from weeds :D whats a broad-leaf weed/plant?

[borealis]

I'm a cold climate gardener too, when I want to kill grass/weeds, I cover the area with something light can't penetrate, like old roofing or sheets of chipboard or old plywood, or heavy black plastic. Plants die without light. Takes about six weeks or longer depending on what you're trying to kill.

Fill and soil are expensive here, and you need to watch what comes with topsoil, too. A neighbour brought topsoil to his place five years ago and grew a ragweed plantation out of it first thing. It's taken five years to eradicate it from the entire street, and I still see a plant occasionally and pull it.

[Jobar]

Borealis is right- the best and probably least expensive way to kill all weeds is to buy a big-ass roll of 12-16mm black poly, spread it out, weight it down with rocks, and leave it for a month or two. Then you can move it to the next section of yard and do it again. If you wet the ground thoroughly just before you cover it, that causes any seeds to germinate- and they die of lack of sun.

Roundup (glyphosphate) mixed strong with diesel fuel kills everything green, even cactus and bamboo. And it's not very toxic to animals (except fish.) And it degrades to harmlessness in just a few weeks- 6 or so. But it can't be used over and over like poly plastic can.

[Free in Freeport]

A goat.

[Berthold]

whats a broad-leaf weed/plant?
Dicots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicotyledon)

[So What]

In my household, I kill weeds the old fashioned way - I pull them out. Now, this isn't my idea, but for those of us with black thumbs, it is an ideal way to bond with our green thumbed spouse.

[Cath B]

In my household, I kill weeds the old fashioned way - I pull them out.

Me too.

Sometimes I eat them (ground-elder yesterday, nettles today).

[Cath B]

We're looking after a lamb just now.

I have to keep him away from the raspberry leaves but he's doing a grand job of knocking back the ivy.

As we all know:-

Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey

[rcscwc]

djax, you the best weed killer. Just uproot all weeds.

[reddhedd]

Eat the edibles! I have dandelions, wood sorrel and chickweed in my yard, and gather it for inclusion in green smoothies and salads. Tasty and nutritious, and free.

But I did need to get rid of some grass out front, so this is what I did:

I gathered the neighbors old newspapers, (free stuff again) dampened them and spread them across my lawn last spring, 2-3 sheets deep. Then I spread cedar mulch over top so it looked decent.

After the temp stayed above 60 or so, (6 wks or so) I bought some blueberry bushes, cut "X"s in the paper in the right places and planted them. The floods this past fall eventually washed all the mulch away; by then the paper was pretty much dissolved (worms love them for some reason), the grass was dead and I now have a large area ready for planting, with blueberry bushes thriving.

I plan to eventually get rid of all the grass, replacing with edibles and local flora.

[Goldie]

This time of year, I am pulling weeds everyday in my flower beds. It's like plucking your eyebrows. Check everyday and pluck a few... That way it never gets TOO out of hand. But, when you really need to rid yourself of weeds in a large area, covering an area with black plastic works well. It sucks up the suns heat and kills anything that grows. 6 weeks, then uncover. You'll still have to remove the larger dead plants.

Do something fun with the area. Grow some beautiful herbs! I absolutely love the smell of rosemary. (It will become a srub where you live)

[Cath B]

Eat the edibles! I have dandelions, wood sorrel and chickweed in my yard, and gather it for inclusion in green smoothies and salads. Tasty and nutritious, and free.

But I did need to get rid of some grass out front, so this is what I did:

I gathered the neighbors old newspapers, (free stuff again) dampened them and spread them across my lawn last spring, 2-3 sheets deep. Then I spread cedar mulch over top so it looked decent.

After the temp stayed above 60 or so, (6 wks or so) I bought some blueberry bushes, cut "X"s in the paper in the right places and planted them. The floods this past fall eventually washed all the mulch away; by then the paper was pretty much dissolved (worms love them for some reason), the grass was dead and I now have a large area ready for planting, with blueberry bushes thriving.

I plan to eventually get rid of all the grass, replacing with edibles and local flora.

I'm impressed!

[miss djax]

i'm taking the easy way out ;) but it is a combo approach - i hired a friend of mine who just got his hours and pay cut to go to town on my yard. in the plan : planting a new museum palo verde tree, removing stumps, adding barrier thingies around existing tree's, defoliation, newsprint, then planting some desert landscaping stuff and finally covering everything left iwth teensy rocks. should take 3 months :D

[Roo St. Gallus]

A goat.

I second this.

Or, too many chickens.

This latter approach did in my yard, such as it was.

[Roo St. Gallus]

i'm taking the easy way out ;) but it is a combo approach - i hired a friend of mine who just got his hours and pay cut to go to town on my yard. in the plan : planting a new museum palo verde tree, removing stumps, adding barrier thingies around existing tree's, defoliation, newsprint, then planting some desert landscaping stuff and finally covering everything left iwth teensy rocks. should take 3 months :D

My commendations on moving towards plantings that are closer to the native regimes. Grass, and all the water it requires (and allergens it generates), is a 'non-sustainable' approach for Phoenix.

There's a great catalog (http://www.hcgstores.com/) for 'High Desert' xeriscaping...meaning using drought-tolerant species plantings...

[miss djax]

ooooo cool link, roo!! thank you!!!

[Daynna]

For fill, check craigslist. Our local craigslist often has people giving away dirt fill in the free section. I guess it may depend on the area you are in.

[Roo St. Gallus]

Sure thing...I use the catalog as a guideline for the kinds of things I can plant that don't demand a lot of watering. That way, I can get away with not watering during our dry period...early July to mid-October.

Water will become more of an issue, and more of an expense, to gardeners. I figured I might as well get a start on it.

[Rie]

Glysophate says my daughter and she knows about these things..... it is however 'non selective' meaning it will kill anything green it 'sees' (?).
Be careful with letting pets near it as it makes them sick.
And don't use it before rain as it washes off. We here in OZ call it 'Round Up'.
This info comes to you care of Rie and Co.

[Notta]

miss djax, once you've gotten rid of the majority of your grass & weeds, you can concoct this at home and use it whenever you want. It will kill anything that grows and does not harm the environment.

Home-made weed & grass killer:

* 1 gallon of white vinegar
* 1 cup of table salt
* 1 tablespoon of liquid dish soap

Mix it up and put it in a regular spray bottle. It kills everything that grows almost instantly, down to the roots. It's much cheaper than any commercial weed product, does not harm the environment, and can get on humans and animals with no ill effects. We use it constantly to get rid of dandelions, crabgrass, and all of our regular weeds and grass between sidewalk sections.

[Roo St. Gallus]

miss djax, once you've gotten rid of the majority of your grass & weeds, you can concoct this at home and use it whenever you want. It will kill anything that grows and does not harm the environment.

Home-made weed & grass killer:

* 1 gallon of white vinegar
* 1 cup of table salt
* 1 tablespoon of liquid dish soap

Mix it up and put it in a regular spray bottle. It kills everything that grows almost instantly, down to the roots. It's much cheaper than any commercial weed product, does not harm the environment, and can get on humans and animals with no ill effects. We use it constantly to get rid of dandelions, crabgrass, and all of our regular weeds and grass between sidewalk sections.

My apologies, but I don't think your claim of "does not harm the environment" can be supported. Putting that intensity of salt on the soil does "harm to the soil"...is salinates it, which makes it difficult to grow anything at all in that soil. Saliantion of agricultural soils is a major player in the advance of desertification in many arid regions of the world, including the high plateau of the US.

[Notta]

Well, for one thing, you only squirt a little bit on the leaves and it kills the whole plant. I've used it all over my yard for weeds. The grass grows back (and sometimes so do the weeds).

In relation to the heavy-duty weed killer (and the suggestion to mix it with diesel), it has a lesser long-lasting impact on the underground water sources. And it's harmless to animals & birds. I live in the Chesapeake Bay area watershed. We're strongly discouraged to use anything that gets into the watershed. Commercially-prepared fertilizers and weed killers wash down the rivers into the bay and kill off the fish, crabs, and clams.

The salt will pretty much dissipate in the soil and can easily break down. But, I agree, it's not TOTALLY 'harmless.'

[Roo St. Gallus]

Sure...If used sparingly, I'm sure your saline solution will kill focused plants. My problem is that my experience with this kind of approach is that most people don't use it sparingly. Or, don't think through profligate use...they think that if it's 'harmless', then they can use as much of it as they deem necessary, as often as they like. Result: Soil that has had it's fertility destroyed, usually in ugly spots.

'Roundup' at least biodegrades in a tolerably short period of time and the defoliated soil can be replanted.

I recommend pulling weeds, and only using something like Roundup for intractable, hard to extract weeds. Of course, I have a small space and I don't garden for food, but for tomatoes. Since I have birds, I fence off such herbicided areas, so they tend to be very spot oriented. I do the same with slug bait.