Maybe it is processed foods that make us fat

[LoneWolf]

I have been reading Omnivore's Dilemma (http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dilemma-Natural-History-Meals/dp/0143038583/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269820257&sr=1-1) and have been enjoying it. At times it drifts away from the facts and gets too philosophical but it is a good read and gets you to thinking.

I find it very distressing the route we have gone with food production and I think it plays a big part in why our society is becoming more and more obese. Yeah, reduced physical activity plays a part but it is a smaller part than what we eat as you can ingest 100 calories in a few quick bites of fast food but would have to run a mile to burn 100 calories off.

I think the worst thing about our food is how processed it has become. This ultra processed food might be high in calories but is low in nutrients. What's more, the processed nature of it means it will be digested in the stomach very quickly, leaving your stomach empty and you hungry much quicker and makes a roller coaster ride out of your blood sugar levels.

On the other hand, that apple or handful of almonds, is more nutritious and will digest in your stomach much slower even though the calorie content might be the same, and you won't get hungry as soon.

Of course, I'm not really saying anything you all don't know, and I am sure many of you know much more about it then I. But I have lost 12 pounds this past month putting this knowledge into practice.

In the past I have tried to lose weight by watching my calories. I would allot myself a certain number of calories and would buy prepackaged meals such as frozen dinners and canned soups that had the calories listed exactly and made the math easy.

Calories in calories out, right? Yeah, except that any diet that leaves you hungry on a regular basis is going to fail. And I would invariably crash and bust my calorie ceiling.

But lately I have been centering my diet around "whole foods", foods with little to no processing. I have been eating a lot of fruits and vegetables and nuts, snacking on them throughout the day, without even watching my calories. I am not a big vegetable lover and have always had to dip them in ranch or something creamy. So now I make my own salad dressing out of plain yogurt, grated parmesan cheese and some spices and it works just as well but is nutritous. Celery dipped in oily natural peanut butter is also gooood.

I would never cut out all meat but I am eating less of it, and what meat I do eat tends to be fresh poultry or fish. I am NOT steering clear of fats, but instead steer toward the healthy fats like are found in avocados, fish and nuts. I'm not steering clear of carbs either, but steer toward the carbs that come from whole fruit, vegetables and whole grains.

The best part is I am not counting calories. I am eating as much as I want, which actually ends up being less calories than what I was eating when I was counting calories but eating a lot of processed foods, because what I am eating now actually satiates me.

Oh, and I always exercise so that hasn't changed.

Studies are always looking at healthy cultures to see what it is about their diets that make them so. In the end the common denominator that I see is they aren't eating highly processed foods.

So I don't know, maybe we make the whole thing too complicated. Low carb this, low fat that, calorie counting. Eat whole foods that haven't been processed to death and I think health and weight loss will follow.

[diana]

I think you're on the right track, Bob. :)

I haven't read The Omnivore's Dilemma (yet), but I'm intrigued. I think your choices are all (what should be) common sense, and very effective for not just weight loss, but health (which I insist should be our ultimate goal, anyway).

I was impressed by this article he wrote for the HuffPost about his latest book, Food Rules (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-pollan/food-rules-a-completely-d_b_410173.html?just_reloaded=1) (which is probably available in libraries by now).

d

[LoneWolf]

Thanks for the link. Yeah, that book is out now and since it is available on the Kindle I just might read it tonight.

[diana]

I lurve my Kindle, too. ;)

d

[rog]

I'm starting to feel a bit podgy at 19st, but I can't blame the food - personally I feel if I did more exercise I'd aim to be about 21st as long as it were more muscle than fat.

[diana]

How tall are you, rog?

d

[LoneWolf]

I'm reading the book now. Eat more food and less "edible foodlike substances". I love it!

[LoneWolf]

I'm starting to feel a bit podgy at 19st, but I can't blame the food - personally I feel if I did more exercise I'd aim to be about 21st as long as it were more muscle than fat.

Yeah, weight isn't actually the best metric to use. Though since a pound of fat will burn off quicker than you can build a pound of muscle, weight loss is still a useful guide of progress initially.

A better guide, though, is how well your pants fit. :)

[His Noodly Appendage]

*cringe*

The problem is, you're conflating three very separate things: energy balance, nutrition and behaviour.

This is fine as far as it goes. Inasfar as low-gi, high-bulk foods tend to keep a person going a lot longer - and with fewer total calories - than the sugar-and-fat-bombs that are so popular in our society, it's reasonable enough to consider draw some equivalences.

The trouble comes when the woo-woo crunchy hippie pseudoscience and/or marketing types get a whiff of that concept, and go nuts.

It's a bit like saying "I think we're making it all too complicated with all these T-cells and globulins and whatnot - just remember that like cures like. An atttenuated dose of a pathogen for disease, and an even-more attenuated dose of a substance for an allergy. That's all you need, in the vast majority of cases."

Well, yeah, if you keep strictly to the bounds of the analogy. Trouble is, if you're foolhardy enough to actually speak those words aloud, you get (or empower) homeopaths.


I think it's generally best to make separate factors explicitly separate. It's not the wholeness of the food that helps, it's how much of what else it discouraging you from eating instead. And you need to say that every time.

[Rie]

It is simple for me. I just have to stop being a couch potato and drinking so much flavoured milk and not cooking for myself.

[Ray Moscow]

We ate at Burger King yesterday during a quick break from gardening. I was reminded how easy and quick it is to consume a lot of rich food that way.

Our normal meals at home would be full of vegetables, whole grains, and usually a bit of lean meat -- and would take 30 minutes to eat (plus at least 30 minutes to cook), as opposed to about 5 minutes to wolf down a Whopper and fries.

[kennyc]

Lawsuits on the way:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7533668/Junk-food-as-addictive-as-heroin-and-smoking.html

[Ray Moscow]

Lawsuits on the way:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7533668/Junk-food-as-addictive-as-heroin-and-smoking.html

I imagine junk food is addictive for many people, but it's going to be a lot harder to assign legal fault for serving it than it would be a dedicated "drug". People have to eat, and they often choose the less healthy food (that's why it's not "McSalad's"). Making it cheap and readily available is just good business.

It's pretty hard to legislate around that.

[kennyc]

Oh and to the OP I agree completely am beginning to follow that path myself and am reading "Eat to Live" http://www.amazon.com/Eat-Live-Revolutionary-Formula-Sustained/dp/0316829455

[Matty]

what HNA said, not that i disagree with the base premise of the OP.

Take a look at the healthy diet aisle at the supermarket and then grab the over made up, middle aged, orange woman who is filling the cart full of modern day Ayds,

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zero calorie snacks, coke zero and fat free cheese, and point her in the direction of the fruit and veg aisle. Give her a chance, it might be so long since she ate any of those unhealthy things like apples and (gasp yes), even potatoes, that she forgotten they are really quite nutritious if you prep them right.

[LoneWolf]

Noodles, I get what you are saying. I sure as hell wouldn't want to say anything that empowers homeopaths. I could see how "whole foods" and "holistic medicine" could get caught up together. But I think a big difference is one holds up to empirical scrutiny and the other does not.

[His Noodly Appendage]

Hey! No dissing coke zero. Coke zero is awesome.

[rog]

How tall are you, rog?

d

6'7" or so.

[Matty]

Shit you are a big lad. ^^ . Tbf 19stone doesnt exactly sound massive if you are 6'7. I never pay any attention to that BMI crap anyway, how well do you carry it? I'm 6ft and about 15stone which according to BMI puts me in my grave pretty much yet i can play more sports longer and better than plenty of skinnier mates.


Hey! No dissing coke zero. Coke zero is awesome.

ummm. no. :)

no pop is awesome unless it had something nicely alcoholic diluting it out.

bleh.

It is simple for me. I just have to stop being a couch potato and drinking so much flavoured milk and not cooking for myself. Straight up. I doubt the chocolate milk does anything compared to the other two.

I never quite got the whole "milk is bad for you" bullshit. Even at its fattiest it is a nutritious low fat beverage. Hippie cunts demonised it as unhealthy, PETA lies that it gives you autism and for some retarded reason it sticks, becasue people want an easy target and quick fix in order to not have to face up to he fact that they are basically lazy bastards.

"Oh it CANT be that my once a week yoga class, and 12 a day calorie free food supplements isnt enough to keep me thin, its that fucking milk, THATS the reason i am still out of breath climbing the stairs. Lets see what extras gizmoas they have on the shopping channel, no doubt there is some new technological advance to help me undo the evil that having milk in my tea has wrought upon my poor body"

I have never failed to be amused to be told that milk is unhealthy, in general, but especially by anyone who drinks diet pop.

[Daynna]

Hey! No dissing coke zero. Coke zero is awesome.

I'm drinking one now! :)

[nygreenguy]

When it comes to fats, I just read a study that said you loose more wight by increasing good fats, than limiting all fats.

[Ray Moscow]

When it comes to fats, I just read a study that said you loose more wight by increasing good fats, than limiting all fats.

What are the "good fats"?

I've read that monounsaturated fats are best (like in olives or avocados), but I was wondering about the actual scientific evidence to support that.

[LoneWolf]

I'll have to watch the video later. And yes, the health food aisle is a joke. And I admit, I have been guilty of eating power bars and drinking meal replacement shakes in the past.

I read the Food Rules book last night in less than an hour. It basically takes some core concepts from his bigger books (that do delve into some of the science) and just lists some easy to remember rules to live by when picking food to eat. It is oversimplified for people who really want to delve into the topic but is still a good guide for people who don't want to overthink it.

As for all those "low fat" and "light" products, in most cases you are probably better off just eating the original product but less of it.

I am also facinated by diet sodas. Diet Dr. Pepper is a vice of mine that I am trying to overcome. I drink diet because I actually prefer the taste to the regular kind. But as counter intuitive as it seems, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that switching to diet sodas results in weight loss in any of the studies I have seen. I'm not sure if we understand exactly why that is yet.

[LoneWolf]

When it comes to fats, I just read a study that said you loose more wight by increasing good fats, than limiting all fats.

What are the "good fats"?

I've read that monounsaturated fats are best (like in olives or avocados), but I was wondering about the actual scientific evidence to support that.

I remember writing a paper on it quite some time back and reading studies that showed diets high in good fats lowered LDLs and raised HDLs. What I don't know is if it has been PROVED that high LDLs cause heart disease but the correlation is VERY strong.

[Free in Freeport]

Any food will make you fat if you eat too much of it...excepting perhaps celery.

[dancer_rnb]

Shit you are a big lad. ^^ . Tbf 19stone doesnt exactly sound massive if you are 6'7. I never pay any attention to that BMI crap anyway, how well do you carry it? I'm 6ft and about 15stone which according to BMI puts me in my grave pretty much yet i can play more sports longer and better than plenty of skinnier mates.


Hey! No dissing coke zero. Coke zero is awesome.

ummm. no. :)

no pop is awesome unless it had something nicely alcoholic diluting it out.

bleh.

It is simple for me. I just have to stop being a couch potato and drinking so much flavoured milk and not cooking for myself. Straight up. I doubt the chocolate milk does anything compared to the other two.

I never quite got the whole "milk is bad for you" bullshit. Even at its fattiest it is a nutritious low fat beverage. Hippie cunts demonised it as unhealthy, PETA lies that it gives you autism and for some retarded reason it sticks, becasue people want an easy target and quick fix in order to not have to face up to he fact that they are basically lazy bastards.

"Oh it CANT be that my once a week yoga class, and 12 a day calorie free food supplements isnt enough to keep me thin, its that fucking milk, THATS the reason i am still out of breath climbing the stairs. Lets see what extras gizmoas they have on the shopping channel, no doubt there is some new technological advance to help me undo the evil that having milk in my tea has wrought upon my poor body"

I have never failed to be amused to be told that milk is unhealthy, in general, but especially by anyone who drinks diet pop.

I think he was talking about flavored milk, Matty.
Have you looked at the sugar count in that stuff?

[LoneWolf]

True FB, but my point is that processed foods affect your body in such away that MAKE you want eat more by making you hungry too quick regardless of the calorie content.

[Matty]

I think he was talking about flavored milk, Matty.well i got that but to my mind flavoured milk isnt THAT loaded. Chocolate milk here is basically milk and cocoa with not much added sugar.

unless you are talking adding a half cup of that syrupy shite to a nice glass of milk. In which case WHY?

My point was basically though that compared to the chubby making hazard of flavoured milk, the not being a couch potato and doing your own actual food prep, bits, are a few orders of magnitude more important. Not that flavoured milk is inherently good (normal milk IS however, no matter what PETA says)

[Daynna]

You sure are nitpicking on the flavoured milk. Rie didn't prioritize which was more important in her post. She just stated it as a cause. She could drink gallons of the stuff for all you know. Some of the pre-mixed stuff out there has twice the calories than the non-chocolate milk.

You planning on running for office on an anti-PETA anti-American platform? *tease*

[Berthold]

You planning on running for office on an anti-PETA anti-American platform? *tease*
Sounds interesting. :evil:

In the case of the former, even without reservations.

[nygreenguy]

When it comes to fats, I just read a study that said you loose more wight by increasing good fats, than limiting all fats.

What are the "good fats"?

I've read that monounsaturated fats are best (like in olives or avocados), but I was wondering about the actual scientific evidence to support that.

Anything unsaturated. I tried finding where I read this published, but I cant. It was in a journal though.

[LoneWolf]

^^
Yeah, I read it in Journals when I was at Texas A&M. I'll try and find what I can on the internet. THe American Heart Association says such studies exist but doesn't cite them.

[Berthold]

What are the "good fats"?

I've read that monounsaturated fats are best (like in olives or avocados), but I was wondering about the actual scientific evidence to support that.

Anything unsaturated.
Except if trans.

[Matty]

You planning on running for office
If Brit atheists are allowed, sure, i'll sort you all out, or get assassinated.
One of the two probably. :D

on an anti-PETA
A vote for Matty is a vote for steak

anti-American platform? *tease*
but hold the fries and gallon of Coke

[Daynna]

Bless your heart, Matty.

[Bleaker]

I like my edible foodlike substances. :(

[nygreenguy]

What are the "good fats"?

I've read that monounsaturated fats are best (like in olives or avocados), but I was wondering about the actual scientific evidence to support that.

Anything unsaturated.
Except if trans.

Ok, any NATURAL unsaturated fat.

Also lonewolf, what I read was quite recent. This month in fact.

[His Noodly Appendage]

Matty: whole milk is like 1 calorie per mil.

I'm currently on a diet, losing weight nicely at around the 1000 calories/day mark (11.5 kg since feb, to be exact).

A couple of glasses of milk would therefore come close to doubling my intake - and no, I don't lose weight on much more than I'm on.

I get through vast quantities of coke zero, though.

I wouldn't argue "unhealthy", but I'd sure as hell argue "not worth the calories, if you're counting them". Even half-fat, it's still fairly sucky value.

(yes, I'm on a calcium supplement for the duration)

[rog]

My GF once went on a diet - breakfast was all-bran with skimmed milk, she actually cried; I can't say I blame her, it tasted like twigs in water.

[His Noodly Appendage]

Skim milk is disgusting.

And diets consisting of food you don't like are a silly idea.

[rog]

And diets consisting of food you don't like are a silly idea.

Yep, it a self-induced punishment - also impossible to stick to.

[LoneWolf]

Skim milk is disgusting.

I like it with cereal but that is it.

And diets consisting of food you don't like are a silly idea.

Yep, and is why so many people fail at diets. When developing a new healthy way of eating you have to plan for your weaknesses. Like I said, I just can't tolerate salad without creaming dressing. So instead of forcing myself to eat the oil and vinegar type dressing I came up with my own dressing made from plain yogurt, grated parmesan cheese and spices. So I have addressed that weakness. I keep whole grain triscuits in case I get a craving for a carby crunchy snack. I keep berries for when I want to snack on something sweet. I have a bunch of different types of nuts like macadamia nuts around for when I want a fatty snack. The thing is I LIKE all those things.

Deprivation doesn't work. Not for long anyway.

[Rie]

The 'trans' type fat is used without regard to the health of the public by lots of food places. The point is that it is linked to the onset of cancer.

[nygreenguy]

Skim milk is disgusting.

And diets consisting of food you don't like are a silly idea.

No way. Its the best!

[Blueskyboris]

Skim milk is disgusting.

I like it with cereal but that is it.

And diets consisting of food you don't like are a silly idea.

Yep, and is why so many people fail at diets. When developing a new healthy way of eating you have to plan for your weaknesses. Like I said, I just can't tolerate salad without creaming dressing. So instead of forcing myself to eat the oil and vinegar type dressing I came up with my own dressing made from plain yogurt, grated parmesan cheese and spices. So I have addressed that weakness. I keep whole grain triscuits in case I get a craving for a carby crunchy snack. I keep berries for when I want to snack on something sweet. I have a bunch of different types of nuts like macadamia nuts around for when I want a fatty snack. The thing is I LIKE all those things.

Deprivation doesn't work. Not for long anyway. I'm a big fan of the habit-based diet. You may not like salads without creamy sauce right now, but you can definitely train yourself to eat salads topped with vinegar. It just takes time and effort. That is how I eliminated my chocolate and milk addiction and halved my calories. Yes, sure, it took me two years, but now that it is a habit I have no cravings for milk or chocolate.

[Berthold]

...it tasted like twigs in water.
I'm sure there are quite lovely versions of this basic principle (Asian soups...).

[Daynna]

Skim milk is an acquired taste. I only use milk for cooking, so it's not an issue for me. My husband uses it for cereal and doesn't hate it or anything. Neither of us like to drink milk. It used to make me throw up when I was younger.

[BioBeing]

Food affects your brain just like sex or drugs (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=addicted-to-fat-eating).


Like many pleasurable behaviors—including sex and drug use—eating can trigger the release of dopamine, a feel-good neurotransmitter in the brain. This internal chemical reward, in turn, increases the likelihood that the associated action will eventually become habitual through positive reinforcement conditioning. If activated by overeating, these neurochemical patterns can make the behavior tough to shake—a result seen in many human cases, notes Paul Kenny, an associate professor in the Department of Molecular Therapeutics at The Scripps Research Institute in Jupiter, Fla., and co-author of the new study. "Most people who are overweight would say, 'I would like to control my weight and my eating,' but they find it very hard to control their feeding behavior," he says.

Despite a growing body of research, it has been unclear whether extreme overeating was initiated by a chemical irregularity in the brain or if the behavior itself was changing the brain's biochemical makeup. The new research by Kenny and his colleague Paul Johnson, a graduate student, shows that both conditions are possible.

[covert]

I wonder how much psychology and vanity play a part. Or self image, like maybe subconsciously we think we don’t deserve to look good, so we eat.

I carried a belly for thirty years or so, then I had surgery not related to my stomach. It caused me to lose fifteen pounds. Before I put any weight back on I was at some social function. A woman walked up to me and put her hand on my stomach exclaiming that it was incredible. She said she never before saw a man my age without a belly. That was five years ago and I have not put a pound on since.

[Daydream]

I've always told my kids that a healthy diet consists largely of foods that are in as near their natural state as possible. I've also told them to try and eat many different colors of foods each day so there is variety in what they eat.

[Anne]

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[cape_royds]

Exercise leads to you burning more energy than just during the activity itself. When you're in good condition, you burn more energy just sitting still. Exercise makes your body highly inefficient in its overall use of energy. A fit body never goes into "energy-saver mode." A V-8 motor burns a lot of fuel even when idling at a red light.

So it's not like you need to do a specific amount of exercise exactly equal to calories consumed. Rather, you only need to do enough exercise to make your body habitually inefficient.

I consume a lot of calories, I have a sedentary job, and I only jog 20-25 km a week. But I burn a lot of calories while I'm sleeping, because my body has become quite hideously inefficient after 15 years of regular mild jogging.