Sufism

[Clivedurdle]

Just reading William Dalrymple Nine Lives and he has a chapter about Sufism and how it is hated by wahhabis and taliban and is the original religion of Afghanistan.

Wonderful comment that how one's moustache is cut is critical to wahhabi Islam!

Sufis love big noisy kettle drums, dancing and hashish.....

One of their main centres is actually named after Shiva.

It would seem to be a logical thing to do to encourage sufism. Are the international players thinking in those terms?

[David B]

Just reading William Dalrymple Nine Lives and he has a chapter about Sufism and how it is hated by wahhabis and taliban and is the original religion of Afghanistan.

Wonderful comment that how one's moustache is cut is critical to wahhabi Islam!

Sufis love big noisy kettle drums, dancing and hashish.....

One of their main centres is actually named after Shiva.

It would seem to be a logical thing to do to encourage sufism. Are the international players thinking in those terms?

I would doubt very much that international players are thinking about sufism at all.

What I know about them is that they were whirling dervishes, who put themselves into a state of religious ecstasy by spinning.

And that they had a lot of good, zen-like stories, which I got from reading several Idries Shah books back in my mystical years, many years ago, and who I rather liked. At the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idries_Shah

David

[Preno]

Just reading William Dalrymple Nine Lives and he has a chapter about Sufism and how it is hated by wahhabis and taliban and is the original religion of Afghanistan.It's also worth noting that Sufism - not Wahhabism or some other extreme form of Islam - is also the predominant religion in Chechnya.

[David B]

Just reading William Dalrymple Nine Lives and he has a chapter about Sufism and how it is hated by wahhabis and taliban and is the original religion of Afghanistan.It's also worth noting that Sufism - not Wahhabism or some other extreme form of Islam - is also the predominant religion in Chechnya.

Hmm. Pause for thought there.

Maybe there is more to Sufism than whirling and nice Zen-like stories, and maybe not altogether pleasant.:dunno:

Maybe when a country gets stamped on, it creates extreme reactions:dunno:

I seem to recall, though, that one way or another, the Chechins spawned lots of suicide bombers.

David

[Preno]

Actually, my point was pretty much the exact opposite - that the media portrayal of Chechens as religious fanatics is absurd (although obviously one shouldn't idealize any religion).

Sufism is also big in Central Asia, Uzbekistan in particular. In fact, as the OP hypothesized, the authoritarian governments in Chechnya and Uzbekistan both support Sufism in an effort to minimize the threat of religious extremism (which, however, is mostly just imaginary in the case of the latter).

We actually visited the tomb of the founder of the Naqshbandi tariqa (order/brotherhood), which is one of the major Sufi orders, near Bukhara, Uzbekistan some time ago:http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq92/Preno_cz/Central%20Asia%202008/DSCN8876.jpg?t=1270170030


http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq92/Preno_cz/Central%20Asia%202008/DSCN8882-ZdeleziBakhaudinNaqshband.jpg


http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq92/Preno_cz/Central%20Asia%202008/DSCN8880-UNaqshbandovamauzolea.jpg


http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq92/Preno_cz/Central%20Asia%202008/DSCN8878.jpg
(The pole with the horsetail on top of the tomb is iirc some sort of pre-Islamic Central Asian thing.)

[Politesse]

Sufism doesn't always come into the conversation among outsiders. But in the Islamic world, Sufi teachers and scholars are well respected, or were; Sufi experts often take up residence near mosques and centres and offer guidance to whoever asks it, and their word is generally, or was generally, taken as one of the most important sources of living authority on the faith. Their place has diminished with the rise of fundamentalism, which as you can imagine is opposed to learning of any kind, so that in the Middle East Sufis have frequently found themselves in trouble. Radicals put themselves in power and preserve their power on the premise that they are in the service of the good of Islam- the last thing they want is a religious authority pointing out that their "sharia" is not sharia or that their "caliphs" are broken reeds. The Wahhabists especially hate them, an emnity that goes both ways since the former group is trying to replace traditional Islamic schools of jurisprudence with their own chaotically radical moral standards. So the current status of Sufi scholarship is in question, especially where it is arguably most needed. But in the Western world, they remain important and respected among most Muslims. They would be in the middle east, if the middle east weren't largely under the control of wealthy despots.

[Ray Moscow]

I had a conversation once with a guy in Saudi about Sufism. He didn't know much about it, but he thought it was terrible. "Dancing prayers?!!! They think dancing is praying?!!!!"

(One probably shouldn't get into religious talk inside that country, but most people there will bring up the subject.)

[Clivedurdle]

Dalrymple p 132


Why call yourself a scholar. o mullah?
You are lost in words.

You keep on speaking nonsense,
Then you worship yourself.

Despite seeing God with your own eyes,
You dive in the dirt.

We Sufis have taken the flesh from the holy Quran,
While you dogs are fighting with each other.

Always tearing each other apart,
For the privilege of gnawing at the bones

Shah Abdul Latif