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lpetrich
21 Mar 2009, 01:35 PM
According to this article (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/fifth_planet_020318.html) and this article (http://www.aas.org/publications/baas/v33n3/dps2001/505.htm), there is an interesting theory that can account for a curious phenomenon in the early history of the Solar System, the Late Heavy Bombardment.

That is a curious peak in the Moon's bombardment rate that had happened 3.9 billion years ago -- 600 million years after the Solar System's origin.

So what provoked the coming of that swarm of big rocks?

If they had been left over from the origin of the Solar System, one would expect their abundance to continually dwindle as they collide with other objects. There would not be anything to provoke them to start colliding with other objects all of a sudden.

But astronomers John Chambers and Jack Lissauer have proposed that there had once been a fifth terrestrial planet, one that had orbited a little beyond Mars's orbit. Being a little beyond make its orbit suffer dynamical chaos over timescales of a few million years ago, and after about 600 million years, it had a near-collision with Mars and got into a much more eccentric orbit whose aphelion extended into the Asteroid Belt.

This caused a lot of asteroids to be deflected into orbits which took them into the inner Solar System, where they proceeded to strike the Earth, the Moon, and Mars, with a few of them striking Mercury.

Thus producing the Moon's Late Heavy Bombardment.

And what happened to this planet afterwards? A likely fate is colliding with some other Solar-System object, most likely Venus or Jupiter.

Finally, I consider the question of what to call this object, if it had existed. I propose Eris, after the Greek goddess of discord, though Loki, after the Norse god of mischief, may also be a good one.

There is an additional Eris connection. According to the story, she was not invited to the wedding of Peleus and Thetis, so she took one of the Golden Apples of the Hesperides, wrote "For the fairest" on it, and threw it into the wedding party.

Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite bickered among themselves about who would get this title, and Zeus decided to settle it by having a shepherd named Paris decide. Hera offered him the rule of much of the known world, Athena offered him great military prowess, and Aphrodite the love of the most beautiful woman in the world, a certain Helen. Paris chose that love, but that pissed off Helen's family, causing the Trojan War.

So Eris might be a good name for a planet which once did some "throwing", also with devastating effects.

frazier
21 Mar 2009, 03:15 PM
It's an interesting speculation.

Eris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eris_(dwarf_planet)) is already taken though.

Eudaimonist
23 Mar 2009, 12:47 PM
So, was the Asteroid Belt also potentially another terrestrial planet that was destroyed, perhaps by tidal forces from Jupiter?


eudaimonia,

Mark

ofro
25 Mar 2009, 03:21 AM
I thought that initially all of the sun's accretion disk was as thickly populated as the asteroid belt, but everything inside Pluto was eventually cleared out by the planets.

Lisa0315
25 Mar 2009, 01:19 PM
Interesting. Thanks, Lp!

lpetrich
26 Mar 2009, 07:28 AM
I thought that initially all of the sun's accretion disk was as thickly populated as the asteroid belt, but everything inside Pluto was eventually cleared out by the planets.
More precisely, the planets formed from that disk and soaked up the leftovers near them.

However, Jupiter's gravity kept the asteroid belt stirred up, keeping full-sized planets from forming there.

RAFH
26 Mar 2009, 08:03 PM
An alternative to there being such a planet is simply a passing star or some serious event outside the solar system but near. I believe it's been suggested there was a nearby supernova early on less than a light year away. Such an event would upset bodies in the TransNeptune region and the Oort Cloud and set off a serious round of bombardment. Thus, no need for an extra planet.

Then again, did all the mass from whatever is supposed to have hit Earth to create the Moon end up in either, perhaps some of it headed off in disparate directions. It doesn't take a particularly huge body to make a seriously big crater, just adequate impact velocity. A 100 km diameter object, which really isn't that big, would create as big a crater as any known in the solar system, something like 2400 km in diameter as a final dimension.

Lisa0315
26 Mar 2009, 08:07 PM
An alternative to there being such a planet is simply a passing star or some serious event outside the solar system but near. I believe it's been suggested there was a nearby supernova early on less than a light year away. Such an event would upset bodies in the TransNeptune region and the Oort Cloud and set off a serious round of bombardment. Thus, no need for an extra planet.

Then again, did all the mass from whatever is supposed to have hit Earth to create the Moon end up in either, perhaps some of it headed off in disparate directions. It doesn't take a particularly huge body to make a seriously big crater, just adequate impact velocity. A 100 km diameter object, which really isn't that big, would create as big a crater as any known in the solar system, something like 2400 km in diameter as a final dimension.

I cannot remember the method in which they tell a dwarf planet from something else, but it seems like it is from observing a companion star. Either that, or from bouncing off radio waves...

Lisa

Berthold
29 Mar 2009, 09:28 AM
Just what, anyway, is supposed to have given Venus her crazy axial orientation?

Lisa0315
29 Mar 2009, 04:04 PM
Just what, anyway, is supposed to have given Venus her crazy axial orientation?

I don't think anyone knows for sure. I think I read somewhere that a mega meteor hit her and knocked her ass into a reverse orbit.

This link states that it has to do with tidal pull...:dunno:

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/fsd/astro/venus.php

Faid
29 Mar 2009, 09:42 PM
Wouldn't an explosion with another, already formed terrestrial planet (Venus) leave clear marks?

Lisa0315
29 Mar 2009, 09:47 PM
Wouldn't an explosion with another, already formed terrestrial planet (Venus) leave clear marks?

Good question, but how can we examine her? I know we have Hubble to take pics, but if I remember correctly, the surface of Venus is pretty hot all the time. So, I think if we sent any kind of technology to her surface, it would burn up.

Lisa

Berthold
30 Mar 2009, 04:22 PM
Wouldn't an explosion with another, already formed terrestrial planet (Venus) leave clear marks?
Not overly recognizable ones if the planet is hot inside, and sufficient time passes. Anyway, if the collision has sufficient energy, it would even melt a body that was not liquid originally.