Dawkins takes on faith schools in Britain

[Aca]

Yesterday a new documentary on faith schools in UK (named Faith School Menace)was shown on channel 4

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/faith-school-menace/episode-guide/series-1/episode-1

apparently it had a bit where Dawkins visits muslim faith school and their science class. It caused a bit of reaction

here, by a muslim science teacher

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/aug/19/dawkins-wrong-religion-doesnt-blinker-children

and here, reply to above link, by the new humanist

http://blog.newhumanist.org.uk/2010/08/dawkins-documentary-raises-worrying.html

i want to watch it :(

[DMB]

See also this thread. (http://www.secularcafe.org/showthread.php?t=8025)

[neilstone40]

Just watched it this afternoon and it was more worrying than I ever expected.

One part in particular was during a discussion with some girls and their so called "science teacher" in a muslim faith faith school. The teacher claimed that qur'anic creationism was taught on an equal footing to evolution. She also claimed that all 60 of the children have (through free though and self analysis apparently) rejected evolution in favour of the Qur'anic version of events.

When one of the children asked Prof Dawkins to explain a fairly basic concept of evolution, he first passed the question to the "science teacher" who was unable to provide any answer at all (the question related to chimps and humans having a common ancester rather than humans descending from chimps with other chimps failing to evolve further)

I was hoping they would cover Scottish schools where children either attend a non-denominational school (where in absence of other belief or opting out, children are presumed to be christian protestants and instructed to worship accordingly) or roman catholic schools. Teaching certain subjects (such as biology & RE) are restricted to people with diocese approval, in other words roman catholics.

Having worked in education years ago, I'm aware of a number of horror stories about diocese approval. One concerned a female teacher who's husband had left her then subsequently divorced her. Diocese approval was withdrawn from her which, although she could not be sacked, meant she could not be considered for promotion or even accept a sideways move to another catholic school.

RD did cover Northern Ireland, which although not on the same scale, has similar sectarian problems to Scotland. Children growing and learning apart helps entrench sectarian attitudes and often limits friendships to who you went to school with.

I really hope one day we get a government who remove religion instruction from the classroom or at the very least teach it on a similar footing to ancient Roman or Norse Gods.

[David B]

Links to the documentary in this link, for Britain and America

http://richarddawkins.net/videos/500515-faith-school-menace-now-visible-in-us

I'm watching it now - Dawkins not strident at all, just plain reasonable. and it is shocking. I've just emailed my MP about the two topics of the cost of the Pope's visit and Faith Schools

David

[Ray Moscow]

I wouldn't say that it is shocking: it's pretty much exactly what I'd expect from "faith schools".

It is, however, an extremely piss-poor use of tax money and a betrayal of the government's duty toward the UK's children.

I wonder what percentage of the 7% or so of Britons who attend church are just doing so to get their kids placed into a "good" school? The woman who converted to Catholicism to win the priest's recommendation was a bit shocking, even to a cynic like me. Is this common?

[Xrikcus]

Converting to catholicism to get the priest's recommendation is shocking? What does conversion require? If the tradeoff is a few months popping along to church, a bit of making up confessions with the aim of getting your child isn't a good school (by whatever interpretation you have) surely that's entirely sane? I'd do it.

[Ray Moscow]

Conversion requires taking a series of classes and formally getting inducted into the RCC by a bishop, while pledging to hold to its doctrines. It might require baptism, depending on one's previous religious background.

IOW, it's a major deception if one doesn't really believe all that crap.

It's not just showing up to church now and then.

[Xrikcus]

Yes, but there are deceptions and there are deceptions. The lying to the bishop aspect doesn't bother me any more than going through all the pledging nonsense to get a passport of a new country would. It's all an act in return for a benefit, in this case access to a "better" school. They are inviting you to lie to them by making an unnecessary restriction on a load of hocus pocus in the first place.

[Rie]

Here where I live in Australia there is a school ostensibly run for the 'religious' . In fact it draws mostly from those in the community who have the money to spend on a 'private' school education.

[dustbin]

Watched the programme yesterday and had a think about it. It's a bit worrying when a so called science teacher cant explain a bit of basic science, when asked why there are still chimps when we evolved from them. Did she not know the answer or was she unable to answer the question as it would contradict the religious teaching. And these kids wanted to be doctors and lawyers.

[Iblis waswas]

1/3 of schools are indoctrination institutes: that is a higher figure than I thought it would be. Surely it can only lead to further community division?

[DMB]

Everybody has been shouting that from the rooftops, Iblis, but the governments have ignored it. You would think the Northern Ireland experience would be enough to convince them.