One more time around...

[Christina]

Hey you guys :). I missed you.

I haven't looked at a thing yet but the logo looks exactly like the mug sitting next to me, steam and all. It must be a cosmic sign from the aliens that it's time to come back.

Where's the forum with the weird woo shit?

[Pendaric]

Yay. Hi Christina. It's great to see a post from you again.

[Redshirt]

Welcome Christina! :D

Long time no see!

- Redshirt (aka "KnightWhoSaysNi")

[David B]

Yo! Christina!

You should see the smile on my face seeing you post here!

David

[Mung Dynasty]

Hi Christina. Long time, no post. :D

[Anne]

Hey you guys :). I missed you.

I haven't looked at a thing yet but the logo looks exactly like the mug sitting next to me, steam and all. It must be a cosmic sign from the aliens that it's time to come back.

Where's the forum with the weird woo shit?


Youi mean ratpags (http://www.rationalpagans.com/index.php)? There's an account there for you...


Nice to see you in public again!

[Christina]

It's nice to be back. I got a big smile when I got Pendaric's email too, David. I was hoping that waiting it out wasn't going to turn into forever.

Mung Dynasty, are you going to tell me who you are or do I have to guess?

Anne is easy (I think) - hey you :)

[Mung Dynasty]

I used to be known as Mung Bean back at IIDB and RnR. Also as Osmanthus at CMB and TR.

[Mediancat]

This is the Christina? AKA Christina Mirabilis?

Hey there! Good to be on the same forum, again.

Rob

[Christina]

dup

[Christina]

I used to be known as Mung Bean back at IIDB and RnR. Also as Osmanthus at CMB and TR.

Ohhhh - I remember your posts from TR. They were good stuff.

Hi Rob - it's great to see you too. It feels like a reunion without all the background screeching.

[Febble]

Lovely to see you, Christina! I've really missed you.

[Christina]

Hi Febble - it's nice to see you here too.

[DMB]

Simply great that you're here! :)

[Notta]

Didn't you have some new kittens you were raising before you left TR, or am I thinking of another Christina?

[Anne]

That's her.

[Mung Dynasty]

Kitten pics! We want kitten pics!

[Mung Dynasty]

Also pics of your pussy. Kthnx.

[Christina]

Hiya DMB :)

Notta, I am just so glad that you asked about my kittens because now you've given me an opportunity to carry the saga of their mom and them through yet another forum. I think that this is the fifth. They are wonderful and adorable and once I get settled I'll start the obligatory cat pics thread if no one else has.

[Christina]

Also pics of your pussy. Kthnx.

That's the 13 year old neutered male one. I'll post pictures of him too just for you.

[Garnet]

Christina!!!! *glomps*

[Christina]

Garnet!!

It's great to see you and so many people that I like back in one place again and not all stressed out. I love new empty forums. They're perfect for people like me who talk too much because I can chalk it up to doing my part to get things going.

[Anne]

*ahem*

You could go to the woo board and chat it up there.

<nudge nudge>

[Master Taran]

http://bestsmileys.com/waving/3.gif

[DMB]

Just to say with my staff hat on that the only way we are allowing at the moment for posting pix is by linking. See the sticky with the FAQs at the top of this forum.

[Notta]

Hiya DMB :)

Notta, I am just so glad that you asked about my kittens because now you've given me an opportunity to carry the saga of their mom and them through yet another forum. I think that this is the fifth. They are wonderful and adorable and once I get settled I'll start the obligatory cat pics thread if no one else has.
Kittehs!!

*squee*

I can talk about my cats all day. Once I become just a little bit older, I'll bore every single stranger I encounter with cat stories as I shed cat hair all over them.

[Christina]

You forget, dear - just because I like to be nice to the woo-ites doesn't mean that I'm not laughing too ; )

I will someday when you can absolutely positively promise me that no word about that which shall not be mentioned is getting argued or gossiped about. My brain will bleed. If I get through the next week without an overwhelming urge to flee I'll be more adventurous.

[Christina]

Hiya MT :)

DMB, you'll be happy to know that I actually read the sticky. I generally don't do that but I like you guys.

[Redshirt]

DMB, you'll be happy to know that I actually read the sticky. I generally don't do that but I like you guys.

Cool! What do you think of the MS and Board Philosophy statements? :)

[Anne]

You forget, dear - just because I like to be nice to the woo-ites doesn't mean that I'm not laughing too ; )

I will someday when you can absolutely positively promise me that no word about that which shall not be mentioned is getting argued or gossiped about. My brain will bleed. If I get through the next week without an overwhelming urge to flee I'll be more adventurous.

You could have access to the Saloon and Brian's (the only fora with drama) removed...

[Christina]

One step at a time, Anne. I move at a snails pace these days. Retirement does that to you. There's never a hurry to do anything.

I'm having a hard time getting used to calling you Anne.

[Thalia Thinks]

Christina!!!!

I've missed you.

*big hugs*

[DMB]

Hi, Thalia! :)

[Christina]

Cool! What do you think of the MS and Board Philosophy statements? :)

I think that they're great. They're simple, they make it clear that there is a target audience and that the forum may not be for everyone that wants a different sort of environment. There's no pretext of a democracy but there isn't an off-putting or rude tone in the way that it's made clear. The basics about things like avatars and sigs are right up front, and perhaps most notably, they're wonderfully brief and don't set up a nightmare of rules lawyering or a wonderful philosophy that's impossible to translate into policies on the ground. I know who is in charge, who is responsible for what, and what to expect. Anything more is overkill IMO.

[Christina]

Christina!!!!

I've missed you.

*big hugs*

Hey Thalia :)

I missed you too. It's so nice to be back. I've been hanging out somewhere else and I like it but it just isn't the same.

[nygreenguy]

Hey, long time no see Christina!

[Anne]

One step at a time, Anne. I move at a snails pace these days. Retirement does that to you. There's never a hurry to do anything.

I'm having a hard time getting used to calling you Anne.

I completely agree. I can't think of you as anything other than Christina... ;)

Call me whatever you'd like.

And there is no rush. There's also no need.

[RBH]

Welcome, Christina. It's very good to see you!

[Notta]

RBH, I'm so glad you're on board here. It makes the entire forum have a different flavor, knowing you're working behind the scenes.

And I've loved your Firewater summaries over at the Panda's Thumb.

[Christina]

Welcome, Christina. It's very good to see you!

It's so nice to see you too, RBH. It's very good to have a place that I have enough confidence in to come back to. I'm really happy that you all went for it again. I'm with Notta - knowing that you are staff is very reassuring :)

[RBH]

RBH, I'm so glad you're on board here. It makes the entire forum have a different flavor, knowing you're working behind the scenes.

And I've loved your Firewater summaries over at the Panda's Thumb.Aw, shucks. :o

I want you to know those summaries cost me long days in hard chairs in a hearing room filled mostly with YECs! :eek:

[Alethias]

Aw, shucks. :o

I want you to know those summaries cost me long days in hard chairs in a hearing room filled mostly with YECs! :eek:How many times did they try to "share the lord" with you?

lol.

I was one once upon a time, RBH.

Sometimes I wish the world were so neat and tidy as I thought it was back then.

But it'd lose a lot of beauty if it were.

[Jobar]

I think that they're great. They're simple, they make it clear that there is a target audience and that the forum may not be for everyone that wants a different sort of environment. There's no pretext of a democracy but there isn't an off-putting or rude tone in the way that it's made clear. The basics about things like avatars and sigs are right up front, and perhaps most notably, they're wonderfully brief and don't set up a nightmare of rules lawyering or a wonderful philosophy that's impossible to translate into policies on the ground. I know who is in charge, who is responsible for what, and what to expect. Anything more is overkill IMO.

Hi Christina! I think that we powers-that-be on SC are unafraid to doff the velvet glove if we see the iron fist is needed.

"Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade."
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."


In fact my main worry is that we risk over-reacting, and enforcing too much civility. Hitting a good balance is our objective; if you (or anyone) see us behaving *too* authoritatively, a polite nudge will be appreciated.

[Octavia]

Christina! Long time no see... am so glad to see you posting (somewhere) again. :)

[Goldie]

I have missed you SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much!

(I bought Bumpy a book: I Love You So ...and the child asks, "How much is 'so'?")

I can tell you that SO is a lot!
HUGS! :D YAY!

[Brianna]

Hey you guys :). I missed you.

I haven't looked at a thing yet but the logo looks exactly like the mug sitting next to me, steam and all. It must be a cosmic sign from the aliens that it's time to come back.

Where's the forum with the weird woo shit?

Good to see you. :)

[Mediancat]

Hi Christina! I think that we powers-that-be on SC are unafraid to doff the velvet glove if we see the iron fist is needed.

"Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade."
"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."


In fact my main worry is that we risk over-reacting, and enforcing too much civility. Hitting a good balance is our objective; if you (or anyone) see us behaving *too* authoritatively, a polite nudge will be appreciated.

I look forward to the balance.

Rob

[Christina]

Hi Jobar. Nice place you got : ). I don't really mind a bit of authoritarian as long as it isn't rude. I think that the tone of the staff makes a lot of difference to how the place feels for most people. More flies with honey than vinegar and all that stuff..

And hi Octavia. It's great to see you too :)

[Christina]

Good to see you. :)

Wow! Hi stranger :)

[Christina]

I have missed you SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much!

(I bought Bumpy a book: I Love You So ...and the child asks, "How much is 'so'?")

I can tell you that SO is a lot!
HUGS! :D YAY!

Me too. I've missed so much of the story that you're going to have to catch me up soon. It's really nice to be back.

[Alethias]

In fact my main worry is that we risk over-reacting, and enforcing too much civility. Hitting a good balance is our objective; if you (or anyone) see us behaving *too* authoritatively, a polite nudge will be appreciated.Looking at your list of admins I have very little cause for concern. The individuals I see on the list tend to range from moderate to rather authoritarian, and seems to be fairly well weighted on the "consequentialism" side of things. If this were the only board out there, and y'all were trying to be everything to everyone, I'd be rather concerned. as it is, as long as you have a consistent vision, and guide the path of the board by that vision, you'll do fine. I think I'm seeing the evidence of that, and it looks like a pretty good place to be.

[RBH]

If this were the only board out there, and y'all were trying to be everything to everyone, I'd be rather concerned. as it is, as long as you have a consistent vision, and guide the path of the board by that vision, you'll do fine. I think I'm seeing the evidence of that, and it looks like a pretty good place to be.That's good to hear, particularly coming from you.

[Jobar]

We are aware that CS will have an ingroup, and also an outgroup. There are people we are willing to exclude.

I think the lack of willingness to exclude some is going to be the downfall of TR; we OTOH have to be careful not to exclude too many.

[Christina]

I think that the idea of staying invite-only for a while is a good one. It will give things a chance to settle down in here, time for reasonable people to make suggestions, and maybe most importantly of all, time for the reactions on other boards to die down and life to move on. There's bound to be at least a bit of upset.

I really don't worry about the group of you going overboard in either direction. There's not a drama queen or well-meaning but inexperienced admin amongst you, and the balance seems good to me.

[Redshirt]

I think that the idea of staying invite-only for a while is a good one. It will give things a chance to settle down in here, time for reasonable people to make suggestions, and maybe most importantly of all, time for the reactions on other boards to die down and life to move on. There's bound to be at least a bit of upset.

It also helps set the tone or culture of the place. In my opinion, some boards can negatively influence one's behaviour based on its tone through peer pressure or desensitization. A bunch of people acting in a certain way rubs off on others. If people start threads like "why the fuck did you move my post!" then others feel free to act the same way. Fortunately, this can work in a positive direction as well -- a positive atmosphere can bring out the better qualities in people. Of course, we're human beings with free will. A positive tone may not work for those who want to be jerks. But in that case, they'd really stand out like sore thumbs from the rest and the staff won't be so hesitant to show them the door.

[DMB]

Thanks for the confidence, Christina. I'm a very inexperienced admin, but one thing we decided is that here we have an admin team and we try to do stuff together and also keep an eye on one another. There is no primus inter pares.

[Christina]

Exactly, Redshirt. I did a lot of forum-hunting over the past 10 months and the tone of each is immediately obvious from a quick scan, which made it relatively easy to select one that was the best fit for me. One look at wherever they put the drama can tell me how abusive the place is and how the staff handle things. As new people come in, they can already see what kind of behavior is the norm and acceptable. It's much harder to do that when 100 people show up all at once right away. It's kind of funny - the forum that I've been hanging out on has an unmoderated area where insults are allowed, and the admins just tightened up the insult rule a little. People are freaking out, making dramatic exit speeches and self-banning and I feel like I'm in the movie "Groundhog Day" except that this time I don't care. I rarely insult anyone anyway and it's not my problem. I swear that you could read those threads and replace the admin's name with ToM and they would be identical to the IIDB explosion. It was a perfect time to get Pendaric's email.

DMB, I know I'm back when I have to google Latin to know what people are talking about. I'd be lost without Lounge threads.

[Redshirt]

Exactly, Redshirt. I did a lot of forum-hunting over the past 10 months and the tone of each is immediately obvious from a quick scan, which made it relatively easy to select one that was the best fit for me. One look at wherever they put the drama can tell me how abusive the place is and how the staff handle things. As new people come in, they can already see what kind of behavior is the norm and acceptable. It's much harder to do that when 100 people show up all at once right away. It's kind of funny - the forum that I've been hanging out on has an unmoderated area where insults are allowed, and the admins just tightened up the insult rule a little. People are freaking out, making dramatic exit speeches and self-banning and I feel like I'm in the movie "Groundhog Day" except that this time I don't care. I rarely insult anyone anyway and it's not my problem. I swear that you could read those threads and replace the admin's name with ToM and they would be identical to the IIDB explosion. It was a perfect time to get Pendaric's email.

DMB, I know I'm back when I have to google Latin to know what people are talking about. I'd be lost without Lounge threads.

This perhaps touches on a philosophical difference we have from TR. In the structure vs. agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_and_agency) dichotomy, it was all about structure in TR. There was and continues to be a strong assumption that "if we just had the right rules and procedures then everything will be okay." They assume that everyone has good intentions and they work really hard at drafting up a bureaucracy of rules or accountability measures for staff in hopes that it will satisfy people and stop the drama. I think we have a more balanced perspective of structure and agency. While structural considerations are important, the people in the structure are important too -- that is, the membership (i.e. our target community we want) and the staff (people who share similar temperament and attitudes on management philosophy so there is better consistency and less infighting).

[Christina]

I don't know the backgrounds of some of you so please don't feel offended that I'm singling him out, but with RBH on board I feel absolutely certain that you won't abandon all common sense to the wind and create a Rube Goldberg nightmare of a structure. It's just all so unnecessary. Maybe I'm jaded from being in management too long but sometimes you have to say "enough of this shit", toss away all of the lofty thoughts and justifications and just see and call it what it is and do the obvious to achieve what you want to. People who aren't invested in your vision will complain and say mean things about how unfair you are, and if it bothers someone that much they have no business being in a leadership role. Life's not fair but somehow it manages to go on.

[DMB]

Actually, we're hoping that when we put the paint pots away (= sorting out a lot of boring set-up stuff), there will be almost nothing left for staff to do. At heart we're mostly quite lazy buggers. I have to say, however, that lpetrich has been working like a slave to get things running and Mung Dynasty is responsible for the decor. We owe a lot to those two.

[Alethias]

This perhaps touches on a philosophical difference we have from TR. In the structure vs. agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_and_agency) dichotomy, it was all about structure in TR. There was and continues to be a strong assumption that "if we just had the right rules and procedures then everything will be okay." They assume that everyone has good intentions and they work really hard at drafting up a bureaucracy of rules or accountability measures for staff in hopes that it will satisfy people and stop the drama. I think we have a more balanced perspective of structure and agency. While structural considerations are important, the people in the structure are important too -- that is, the membership (i.e. our target community we want) and the staff (people who share similar temperament and attitudes on management philosophy so there is better consistency and less infighting).Yup. I don't really care what the structure is. If you have the right measures in place, whatever they are, to cope with things as they come up, it'll remain relatively stable over time.

I agree with Christina; being invite-only for a time allows it to develop it's own pattern and look and feel and way of being under normal circumstances.

[Redshirt]

As DMB indicated, a goal we had was to build a "low maintenance, low drama, low stress" board to manage. A admin or mod who thrives on drama and board politics would hopefully get bored in a place like this.

[Anne]

I don't know the backgrounds of some of you so please don't feel offended that I'm singling him out, but with RBH on board I feel absolutely certain that you won't abandon all common sense to the wind and create a Rube Goldberg nightmare of a structure. It's just all so unnecessary. Maybe I'm jaded from being in management too long but sometimes you have to say "enough of this shit", toss away all of the lofty thoughts and justifications and just see and call it what it is and do the obvious to achieve what you want to. People who aren't invested in your vision will complain and say mean things about how unfair you are, and if it bothers someone that much they have no business being in a leadership role. Life's not fair but somehow it manages to go on.

Beautiful. Can I C&P it without the personal stuff to here (http://www.rationalpagans.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3635)?

or, you could post it in Brian's and I can move it to the thread.

[Christina]

Sure, you can post it on your forum if you want. Standing alone it sounds a bit harsh, but hand in hand with a warm, friendly tone and a bit of mutual trust and respect between staff and members I think it's just the reality of things, but without manners and some political common sense about working with large group dynamics then it's just a dictatorship without the benign part.

[Oolon Colluphid]

Hiya Christina!
I don't know the backgrounds of some of you so please don't feel offended that I'm singling him out, but with RBH on board I feel absolutely certain that you won't abandon all common sense to the wind and create a Rube Goldberg nightmare of a structure. It's just all so unnecessary. Maybe I'm jaded from being in management too long but sometimes you have to say "enough of this shit", toss away all of the lofty thoughts and justifications and just see and call it what it is and do the obvious to achieve what you want to. People who aren't invested in your vision will complain and say mean things about how unfair you are, and if it bothers someone that much they have no business being in a leadership role. Life's not fair but somehow it manages to go on.
^ Did you know that I love you?

[Christina]

Awww, I love you too Oolon : )

Woohoo my thread has stars!

[Brianna]

As long as Oolon doesn't find the wine.... we are good :D

[Christina]

I was reading a creative insult thread on another forum and some of them went on for several paragraphs but not one was anywhere near as good as Oolon can do in sentence or two.

[Oolon Colluphid]

Heh. It's actually something I learned from Peter Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Jones_(classicist)) of Newcastle when on a course he was doing. Commenting as an aside on Jason in Euripides's Medeia, he said "He really is a sententious prick, isn't he?" Ever since, I've loved the double-wallop of combining where's-me-dictionary words with low slang swearing.

[Arctish]

It's wonderful to se you again, Christina. I'm looking forward to the kitty updates.

[alien billie]

Hi Christina, I was really pleased when I saw you were posting here.

Was a bit worried when you stopped posting at TR so abruptly.

[Christina]

It's wonderful to se you again, Christina. I'm looking forward to the kitty updates.

I'm one step ahead of you. (http://www.secularcafe.org/showthread.php?t=95)

[Christina]

Hi Christina, I was really pleased when I saw you were posting here.

Was a bit worried when you stopped posting at TR so abruptly.

Hi - it's nice to see you here too. I probably shouldn't have left without a word given that I was posting about some heavy personal problems going on at the time but I was angry, disgusted, and one more of those long, repetitive and hostile discussions that never got anywhere and my head was going to explode. I was starting to despise people that I formerly liked and it was time to go. There was enough lame drama going on as it was without me making some dramatic exit speech and storming out in a huff so I didn't make a big fuss. The handwriting was already on the wall anyway and I didn't need to see the inevitable unfold.

I do apologize to anyone that sent me a PM that I didn't respond to. I thought that they were getting forwarded to my email address but they weren't and I've never logged into TR since I left so I don't know if any are there. It never really occurred to me that people would worry that I was really in bad shape. I was for a while, but a little while without drama and mental torture from disorganization and I was fine again : )

[Notta]

There was enough lame drama going on as it was without me making some dramatic exit speech and storming out in a huff so I didn't make a big fuss. The handwriting was already on the wall anyway and I didn't need to see the inevitable unfold.
Wow -- I can't believe you wrote this when you missed the major drama that went on in Dec/Jan/Feb of this year.

*zipping lips shut -- won't mention 'drama' again*

[Christina]

A few people kept in touch so I would hear about it but most of the time I didn't go look. It was pretty depressing to see but not surprising at all. "I told you so" is not much comfort when it's something you cared about. I can't call it a failure because a lot of people got exactly what they wanted all along and still are getting it.

OK enough :).

[BWE]

Wow -- I can't believe you wrote this when you missed the major drama that went on in Dec/Jan/Feb of this year.

*zipping lips shut -- won't mention 'drama' again*
She read my contributions (http://secularcafe.org/showthread.php?p=2223&#post2223). :D

[dug_down_deep]

Hi Christina. I'm not sure how you felt about me when you left TR, or afterward, but I have regretted for a long time that we couldn't get TR back to being a place where you liked to post. Just so you know. :)

[Christina]

I hated all of you by the time that I left :D

It's nice to see you getting some rest.

[dug_down_deep]

lol

Thanks.