De-evolution of Stupid People and Moral Responsibility

[Freeman]

For this topic, I would suggest watching this stand up from Joe Rogan, to gain a better idea of the concept I wish to discuss.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=102_1223151338

In this video, Rogan discusses the possible, and highly probable aspects of the very clear and apparent lack of knowledge that exists in this world.

So the question there in remains:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it's completely retarded and counter-productive. So what is the responsibility of those who have Rationality and Knowledge for spreading such to others, if any?

In other words: Is it the responsibility of "smart" people to educate "dumb" people, for the purposes of preserving our way of life and hopefully evolving?
Or, is the mentality of "to each their own" best, and rather we should allow, as Joe Rogan explains, the continued de-evolution of dumb people without any attempts at really educating them?

Case in Point: I have 84 Rights protected by me. My neighbours have maybe 20, and I bet you 95% of the people in your country can't even name all their rights, let alone understand them.

Where's the line?

Also: Questions, comments?

-Peace

[DanB]

I like Joe Rogan.

Joe seems to have a problem distinguishing stupidity from ignorance and culture from genetics. Manifestations of cultural decay are not evidence of genetic divergence.

It's a funny routine but, not something on which to base policy.

[Freeman]

I like Joe Rogan.

Joe seems to have a problem distinguishing stupidity from ignorance and culture from genetics. Manifestations of cultural decay are not evidence of genetic divergence.

It's a funny routine but, not something on which to base policy.

Most certainly not. If one were to base policy on comedy, well... the joke would be on us.

But I believe he makes interesting points, not necessarily the entire subject matter.
As for genetics, I will agree there are those who are more inclined to be stupid, but that isn't to say that everyone can't learn the same subject matter that smart people do. It may take longer and be more work, yet to automatically classify people on the basis of their immediate knowledge would be lacking sight of all the variables.

Putting genetics aside, one can look to a variety of causes for ignorance and stupidity, such as mercury exposure and disinformation.
I believe that with proper adjustment, everyone's IQ can be much higher than now. For instance: Even mentally disabled people can be taught ideas and concepts to increase their IQ score on the basis of the subject matter in relation thereto. Yet that isn't to say "all" mentally disabled people can.

Also, if we were to take serious stock of the failing education system, and perhaps encourage less Left Brain centric programs, ideas could become more easily founded in the mind on the basis of Right brain, whereby the trained and disciplined Left brain could logically analyse and determine such information.

In the case of Joe and his rant, there is no reason why the "workers" couldn't have been taught the methods, reasoning, and information to allow them to progress past their current mental function.
Though this isn't to say that if it was possible to make everyone equally high in IQ that such should be done. A society and its people still need culture, art, and music. With pure reasoning and logic, these would cease to exist.

[rog]

A minor point but by definition half of the population will always have a low I.Q. - i.e. less than 100.

[Khold Inferno]

Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are stupider than that.
-George Carlin

It is incredibly sad that our world, even with how "advanced" we consider ourselves, is filled with people that are completely ignorant of the world around them. People simply do not know basic facts. And God forbid they watch Fox News, which pumps them with even more lies about their world through their Republican/Conservative propaganda.

Two-thirds (of Americans) do not know what the Food and Drug Administration does.
-Bill Maher

These are the same people that claim that America is the greatest country on Earth. But these people are stupid as to not understand something so simple.

She did not know what "ignoramus" meant. So she looked it up, and she still got it wrong.
-John Oliver (when talking about a Fox News reporter)

Pretty self-explanatory. Even when people try to learn new things, they still cannot grasp something as simple as the definitions of words.

[unsuper]

I like Joe Rogan.

Joe seems to have a problem distinguishing stupidity from ignorance and culture from genetics. Manifestations of cultural decay are not evidence of genetic divergence.

It's a funny routine but, not something on which to base policy.

we turn our genes on and off subconsciously. our psychology effects our subconscious. our culture effects our psychology
i believe that culture literally effects genetic evolution

[Ozymandias]

A minor point but by definition half of the population will always have a low I.Q. - i.e. less than 100.

85% of the population are below average in their understanding of statistics.

(I am reminded of a one of the targets the Labour Party used to have, that 90% of children should perform above average at school.)

[MattShizzle]

It does seem that people of low intelligence tend to have way more kids than those of average intelligence - and those of high intelligence have even fewer.

[rog]

It does seem that people of low intelligence tend to have way more kids than those of average intelligence - and those of high intelligence have even fewer.

Have you ever seen the film 'idiocracy'?
http://stagevu.com/embed?width=720&height=388&background=000&uid=fabatvnynrjn#

[DanB]

Environment, particularly nutrition in the first five years, has been shown to have a significant impact on individual intelligence.
we turn our genes on and off subconsciously.
Examples, please?
our psychology effects our subconscious.
I'm confused.
our culture effects our psychology
Granted.
i believe that culture literally effects genetic evolution
As, culture is a component of environment and environment selects, yes.

However, I'm not aware of psychology or cultural experience affecting genetic transcription. I'd be interested in seeing any research.

[MattShizzle]

It does seem that people of low intelligence tend to have way more kids than those of average intelligence - and those of high intelligence have even fewer.

Have you ever seen the film 'idiocracy'?
http://stagevu.com/embed?width=720&height=388&background=000&uid=fabatvnynrjn#

Yeah a couple years back. Decent movie. The beginning was the best.

[unsuper]

Environment, particularly nutrition in the first five years, has been shown to have a significant impact on individual intelligence.

As, culture is a component of environment and environment selects, yes.

However, I'm not aware of psychology or cultural experience affecting genetic transcription. I'd be interested in seeing any research.

google "turn genes on and off" or something. it's also used to explain the differences between identical twins (such as one being gay and one being straight)

those genes don't magically turn themselves on and off. it happens subconsciously. the subconscious is a part of your psychology. your psychology is effected by your environment (and, as weird as it sounds, your psychology effects itself)
there isn't any research backing it up, it actually goes against textbook evolution. i just put two and two together.
the mere fact that your genes turn on and off throughout your life refutes the common theory on evolution which states that what you do during your life doesn't really effect your kid (because it's the dna that you were born with that you are passing on) when in reality those genes that change effect the genes you pass onto your kids

[DanB]

google "turn genes on and off" or something. Ummm... No. You posit. You support.

it's also used to explain the differences between identical twins (such as one being gay and one being straight) Documentation?

those genes don't magically turn themselves on and off. it happens subconsciously. the subconscious is a part of your psychology. The magical subconscious does it.

your psychology is effected by your environment (and, as weird as it sounds, your psychology effects itself) Yeah, feedback. Not that weird of a concept.

there isn't any research backing it up, it actually goes against textbook evolution. i just put two and two together. Conjecture! I'm a big fan. However, when you ignore the data contained in scientific research, you're putting two and unicorns together and then calling it macaroni.

the mere fact that your genes turn on and off throughout your life refutes the common theory on evolution which states that what you do during your life doesn't really effect your kid (because it's the dna that you were born with that you are passing on) when in reality those genes that change effect the genes you pass onto your kidsEvidence. What is your evidence for cultural/psychological experience influencing the transcription of genetic information within an individual?

[rog]

Environment, particularly nutrition in the first five years, has been shown to have a significant impact on individual intelligence.

As, culture is a component of environment and environment selects, yes.

However, I'm not aware of psychology or cultural experience affecting genetic transcription. I'd be interested in seeing any research.

google "turn genes on and off" or something. it's also used to explain the differences between identical twins (such as one being gay and one being straight)

those genes don't magically turn themselves on and off. it happens subconsciously. the subconscious is a part of your psychology. your psychology is effected by your environment (and, as weird as it sounds, your psychology effects itself)
there isn't any research backing it up, it actually goes against textbook evolution. i just put two and two together.
the mere fact that your genes turn on and off throughout your life refutes the common theory on evolution which states that what you do during your life doesn't really effect your kid (because it's the dna that you were born with that you are passing on) when in reality those genes that change effect the genes you pass onto your kids

I too, would like to see where you are getting this from.

[unsuper]

google it then we'll talk about it


(when i said your psychology effects itself i meant you can change your psychology. the same good feeling you feel when you see a sunset you can make yourself feel right now)

correlation vs causation
do your genes effect your you or do you effect your genes? am i hyper because i have add/adhd or do i have add/adhd because i'm hyper? does your subconscious change your genes or does the fact that you aren't consciously doing it make it subconscious?

[DanB]

google it then we'll talk about it Read it yourself. Gene_expression Though as, you've stated your proposition is not in any research and is contrary to established texts, what am I googling?

(when i said your psychology effects itself i meant you can change your psychology. the same good feeling you feel when you see a sunset you can make yourself feel right now) Sure. Pathologies not withstanding.

correlation vs causation
do your genes effect your you or do you effect your genes? am i hyper because i have add/adhd or do i have add/adhd because i'm hyper? does your subconscious change your genes or does the fact that you aren't consciously doing it make it subconscious?Note the distinction in the Wiki between expression and transcription. Expression being manifested in an individual and transcription being a requisite for inheritance.

btw, Definition of EFFECT
1
: to cause to come into being
2
a : to bring about often by surmounting obstacles : accomplish <effect a settlement of a dispute> b : to put into operation <the duty of the legislature to effect the will of the citizens>
Usage Discussion of EFFECT
Effect and affect are often confused because of their similar spelling and pronunciation. The verb 2affect usually has to do with pretense <she affected a cheery disposition despite feeling down>. The more common 3affect denotes having an effect or influence <the weather affected everyone's mood>. The verb effect goes beyond mere influence; it refers to actual achievement of a final result <the new administration hopes to effect a peace settlement>. The uncommon noun affect, which has a meaning relating to psychology, is also sometimes mistakenly used for the very common effect. In ordinary use, the noun you will want is effect <waiting for the new law to take effect> <the weather had an effect on everyone's mood>.

[unsuper]

look up genes turning on and off. then, once you take that as a fact, i can go off into the theory (even though i pretty much did already and it pretty much disproves the current theory on evolution itself... which says things like "if you try to fly, and your kids try to fly, your grandkids still wont be able to fly" they also don't really take into account that you could be "trying to fly" wrong)
i saw the twin thing on a special on tv and i forgot where, but i read about genes turning on and off before


for instance, if you're depressed, there are biological correlations for that. this is taking it a (very small) step further and saying there are genetic correlations as well. that certain genes were turned on (or off)

[rog]

look up genes turning on and off. then, once you take that as a fact, i can go off into the theory

Biobeing the other, better, mod on this subforum is a biologist, I'm sure he'd be able to enlighten you on this - For me I think the idea that ones subconscious causes a difference in how their genes are expressed is gibberish pure and simple, you can't even throw in a link to it.

[unsuper]

it's just known that your genes turn on and off

if you aren't doing it, then it's happening subconsciously (like a heart beat, like getting a boner, etc)

[anduil99]

it's just known that your genes turn on and off

if you aren't doing it, then it's happening subconsciously (like a heart beat, like getting a boner, etc)

If having this ability is subconscious then how does one become conscious of it in the same way as say your heartbeat or getting a boner?

[unsuper]

it's just known that your genes turn on and off

if you aren't doing it, then it's happening subconsciously (like a heart beat, like getting a boner, etc)

If having this ability is subconscious then how does one become conscious of it in the same way as say your heartbeat or getting a boner?

by noticing a psychological change
e.g. depression

but the real question is "how does one learn to consciously control it, like consciously conrolling heartbeat and consciously getting a boner"
anything unconsciously done can be consciously learned

ive only given myself a half boner (no sexual thoughts) and i dunno how to control my heartbeat, i just know that people can
there was even an online class for it available at the jc i go to (it was like half a credit)

[unsuper]

i can also consciously dialate my pupils..... albiet indirectly. i feel it in my gut/chest area, i think it's serotonin

[anduil99]

Ok, its not that you must learn to control consciousness but understanding that you already have that control.

Your heartbeat, in otherwords, is your life. And at any given point in time you have the ability to end your life, but you choose not to; expressing your freedom of control.

[Freeman]

we turn our genes on and off subconsciously. our psychology effects our subconscious. our culture effects our psychology
i believe that culture literally effects genetic evolution

I agree.
Also, if one looks at Quantum Physics, it is clear that the "physical" body is not physical at all.
The idea that physical changes can occur sub-con. seems a stretch, but with more research, is not only possible but probable.

As for current science: This only cements my point that specialization is ridiculous. What does a biologist know of Quantum Physics? Probably little... So how can he explore other ideas, when his mind is focused entirely in the physical?

-Peace

[RobV]

I like Joe Rogan.

Joe seems to have a problem distinguishing stupidity from ignorance and culture from genetics. Manifestations of cultural decay are not evidence of genetic divergence.

It's a funny routine but, not something on which to base policy.

we turn our genes on and off subconsciously. our psychology effects our subconscious. our culture effects our psychology
i believe that culture literally effects genetic evolution

That is an interesting point, has our culture of dumbness effected us?
I think you would be foolish if you didn't take this as a truth.
Thanks to the internet we should be indulging ourselves with the vast amount of knowledge and intellect, but instead people spend their days posting about their cat, what they're doing, and when they're cutting their nails?

[rog]

What does a biologist know of Quantum Physics? Probably little... So how can he explore other ideas, when his mind is focused entirely in the physical?



What would you have a biologist focus on, if not physical bodies, cells and stuff?