Fathers. Who would you sacrifice? You or your son?

[Greatest I am]

Fathers. Who would you sacrifice? You or your son?

There is a lot of information and arguments around questioning the divinity and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Even his historicity is unproven and the general consensus seems to be that he never existed and that the scriptures are a re-write of older religions. In fact, the story of Jesus resembles many of the older Gods right back to 3,000 BCE in Egypt as Horus.

The fact is that we will probably never know. For this little exercise in thought
though, I will assume that he was real and sent by his father as scripture says to die for us.

God is suppose to set the standard of thoughts and actions for mankind. We are suppose to emulate him in every way. Scripture urges us to seek to be as perfect as God.

Yet here on earth, it has been our custom that if a son or father needs to be sacrificed, the father usually steps up. We would all find it counter intuitive if God and Jesus were on a sinking ship and God took the life boat and let Jesus drown. If he could that is. We do send our sons to war but that is somewhat different and I would exclude that consideration here.

Why then do we so readily applaud God sending Jesus to die instead of stepping up himself. Other than the father son relationship, they were identical, so to speak. Why would God or the Bible try to teach us that fathers should sacrifice their sons?

Human fathers believe it better to have the sons bury them instead of them burying the sons. That is certainly my wish and if God asked differently from me, even the Godhead that I believe in truly, I would tell it to kiss my eh, rump.

From outside of Christianity, if we saw Christians follow their Gods example in this issue, most of the world and I dare say, even the non literal and fundamental Christians would condemn their own God and fellow Christians if the fathers sacrificed the sons ahead of themselves.

This is rather a catch 22 for Christians.

As a Christian, would you follow your God's example on this issue, in effect follow His command to emulate him as you are asked to do by your church and Bible, and sacrifice your son,
or
would you ignore your God and church, in effect break the first commandment, and place your standards above God’s, and step up yourself as a parent to sacrifice yourself?

Who would you sacrifice? You or your child?

Regards
DL

[Jet Black]

I'd kill whoever was trying to force me to make the choice.

[Rie]

I'd be out of there if not in chains. As for Jesus ... he can split himself in three so no problem surely?

[neilstone40]

I'd give my life for any of my kids but provide any sacrifice to a narcissistic deity, never!

I remember reading such stuff in the bible being held up as an example of devotion to god. Even as a child, I hated the idea that god could ask such a thing, especially just to feed his own ego.

Enough children in this world suffer at the behest of those who represent various imaginary gods. In the unlikely event that a god did exist, what a hideous excuse for a deity they would be!

[Greatest I am]

At this rate, I will never have a good argument here. Thanks all.

Regards
DL

[Matty]

I'd kill whoever was trying to force me to make the choice.

:cool: this, or die trying

[Politesse]

If my child wished to give his life for a cause he believed in, I would allow him too, since that is right I would want to claim for myself.

[Matty]

regardless? How about if he joined the Heavens Gate or some other clearly mental cult?

[Politesse]

Oh, I would try to deconvince him if I thought his "cause" was not a worthwhile one, but that would be true in any case, I'm not one to keep my opinions secret. What I do not tend to do is attempt to force someone's actions against their will.

[Greatest I am]

Oh, I would try to deconvince him if I thought his "cause" was not a worthwhile one, but that would be true in any case, I'm not one to keep my opinions secret. .

You have not yet opined on this.

Who would you sacrifice? You or your child?

Regards
DL

[Rie]

GIA... er, have you yourself as it were, ever considered being sacrificed? Just wondering.

[Copernicus]

The story exists because scapegoating played a very prominent role in religions in those regions and those times. It no longer makes as much sense to people as it once did, but this story is a bit more unusual in that the god is scapegoating one of its own prized possessions rather than the worshipers doing so. This act is supposed to emphasize God's deep devotion to humanity, because he used his own son (although not really) as a kind of "sin sponge". That may seem cruel, but it does help to make people feel more empowered that this super-powerful being is so devoted to them. Gods need to care about human beings, because that is how we humans can manipulate them into doing stuff for us.

I have always thought that the real kicker in the store was that Jesus wasn't really sacrificed. Normally, sacrificed human beings don't come back to live with their parents. But this has escaped the notice of most Christians, I think. It kind of spoils the story to point that out.

[Politesse]

Oh, I would try to deconvince him if I thought his "cause" was not a worthwhile one, but that would be true in any case, I'm not one to keep my opinions secret. .

You have not yet opined on this.

Who would you sacrifice? You or your child?

Regards
DL

Given the choice? Myself. I think you are taking the father/son metaphor a bit too literally though; to the trinitarian, the two characters were not different people as such. You might as well ask, who would you sacrifice, yourself as a father, or yourself as a son? To be sure, there is some bloody history behind the question of whether the Father died on the cross, and the consensus ended up to be negative. But even those who hold this position would not consider the Father sending the Son as being the same sort of thing as a human father doing the same.

[Greatest I am]

GIA... er, have you yourself as it were, ever considered being sacrificed? Just wondering.

When I feel in a selfish mood, sure.
To want to be a sacrifice is to want to be a hero and seek honor and love. It is one of the most selfish emotions a man can have. It may be the epitome of self gratification.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

The story exists because scapegoating played a very prominent role in religions in those regions and those times. It no longer makes as much sense to people as it once did, but this story is a bit more unusual in that the god is scapegoating one of its own prized possessions rather than the worshipers doing so. This act is supposed to emphasize God's deep devotion to humanity, because he used his own son (although not really) as a kind of "sin sponge". That may seem cruel, but it does help to make people feel more empowered that this super-powerful being is so devoted to them. Gods need to care about human beings, because that is how we humans can manipulate them into doing stuff for us.

I have always thought that the real kicker in the store was that Jesus wasn't really sacrificed. Normally, sacrificed human beings don't come back to live with their parents. But this has escaped the notice of most Christians, I think. It kind of spoils the story to point that out.

It does for sure. They have a sensitive bubble.

As they ride their scapegoat they also do not like when I quote them this.

God rejected the vicarious atonement of Jesus as it would be immoral to offer it or accept it.

Why have you forsaken me is answered with this .

Pro 21:3 To do justice and judgment [is] more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.

Psa 49:7 None [of them] can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

Are you willing to look up these and comment on our salvation without the blood or Jesus?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp9XIh-BPio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

When and if they come back after ignoring most of it and give me some B S about being washed in the blood of Jesus, I give them this next and usually never hear their deluded ramblings anymore.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Oh, I would try to deconvince him if I thought his "cause" was not a worthwhile one, but that would be true in any case, I'm not one to keep my opinions secret. .

You have not yet opined on this.

Who would you sacrifice? You or your child?

Regards
DL

Given the choice? Myself. I think you are taking the father/son metaphor a bit too literally though; to the trinitarian, the two characters were not different people as such. You might as well ask, who would you sacrifice, yourself as a father, or yourself as a son? To be sure, there is some bloody history behind the question of whether the Father died on the cross, and the consensus ended up to be negative. But even those who hold this position would not consider the Father sending the Son as being the same sort of thing as a human father doing the same.

I hear you but tradition says that the father sent the son and that goes against the notion of our morality here and kills the on earth as it is in heaven mantra.

I would hate to miss an opportunity to rub theist nose in it.

If they want to hide behind their silly and impossible to define Trinitarian garbage they can. I deal with that bit of nonsense in my own good way as well. It will be a cold day in hell before a theist can outthink me.

Regards
DL

[Prosthetic Head]

GIA... er, have you yourself as it were, ever considered being sacrificed? Just wondering.

When I feel in a selfish mood, sure.
To want to be a sacrifice is to want to be a hero and seek honor and love. It is one of the most selfish emotions a man can have. It may be the epitome of self gratification.

Regards
DL

The measure of a true hero is to make a great sacrifice that can never be known by anyone else.


Is there honor or love if no one new it happend?


I paraphrased that from an old outer limits episode btw.:D

[Greatest I am]

GIA... er, have you yourself as it were, ever considered being sacrificed? Just wondering.

When I feel in a selfish mood, sure.
To want to be a sacrifice is to want to be a hero and seek honor and love. It is one of the most selfish emotions a man can have. It may be the epitome of self gratification.

Regards
DL

The measure of a true hero is to make a great sacrifice that can never be known by anyone else.


Is there honor or love if no one new it happend?


I paraphrased that from an old outer limits episode btw.:D

That I would call a true altruistic sacrifice with a lose.

If Jesus would have done such then he could claim my respect.

Regards
DL