100,000 Brits seek 'de-baptism'

[Oolon Colluphid]

... according to the National Secular Society and this AFP News item (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5izOlRUJt_WnUlIZhrFwFcazsIY7g).
LONDON (AFP) — More than 100,000 people have recently downloaded "certificates of de-baptism" from the Internet to renounce their Christian faith.

The initiative launched by a group called the National Secular Society (NSS) follows atheist campaigns here and elsewhere, including a controversial advert displayed on London buses which declared: "There's probably no God."

"We now produce a certificate on parchment and we have sold 1,500 units at three pounds a pop," said NSS president Terry Sanderson, 58.

John Hunt, a 58-year-old from London and one of the first to try to be "de-baptised," held that he was too young to make any decision when he was christened at five months old.

The male nurse said he approached the Church of England to ask it to remove his name. "They said they had sought legal advice and that I should place an announcement in the London Gazette," said Hunt, referring to one of the official journals of record of the government.

So that's what he did -- his notice of renouncement was published in the Gazette in May 2008 and other have followed suit.
See also:
www.secularism.org.uk/debaptism.html

[DMB]

It's a bit of a gimmick, IMO. AFAIK the CofE doesn't count its membership according to baptism but by how many attend church at Easter. It's the RCC that counts members by baptism, thus exaggerating its membership hugely.

[Gaga]

been there, done that :D
Kidding aside, I got the written confirmation saturday from the diocese that my name has been removed from the list of the baptized.
Aside wanting to make a point and not wanting to be associated with the RC in any way (the latest public statements of the Great Meringue and his minions were appalling...) it is extremely important, in nations like mine which allow for state subsidy to churches, that the number of recorded catholics decrease. Less registered churchgoers = less money for the cult. :evil:

[DMB]

Congratulations, Gaga!

[hecaterin]

been there, done that :D
Kidding aside, I got the written confirmation saturday from the diocese that my name has been removed from the list of the baptized.
Aside wanting to make a point and not wanting to be associated with the RC in any way (the latest public statements of the Great Meringue and his minions were appalling...) it is extremely important, in nations like mine which allow for state subsidy to churches, that the number of recorded catholics decrease. Less registered churchgoers = less money for the cult. :evil:Ah, so there is a real point to it! Thank you, I had thought it was all a bit of a waste of time.

[DMB]

Italy isn't the only country where this applies. And the RCC measures its membership from baptisms, one time when you have no say whatsoever over deciding to join.

ETA even where no money is involved, it matters on the political front what sort of numbers a church can be claiming to represent. And make no mistake, churches are political institutions.

[Gaga]

I should add that, beside all the practical purposes (which are imho the most important reason to do it), my own initiative actually was born out of sheer indignation and the feeling that I ought to do it for my own conscience.
I've been an atheist for years but I couldn't be arsed to write the letter (the best € 2,80 that I've spent lately)... I'd say that this new pope is probably the biggest liability for the RCC :D

[Ray Moscow]

I should add that, beside all the practical purposes (which are imho the most important reason to do it), my own initiative actually was born out of sheer indignation and the feeling that I ought to do it for my own conscience.
I've been an atheist for years but I couldn't be arsed to write the letter (the best € 2,80 that I've spent lately)... I'd say that this new pope is probably the biggest liability for the RCC :D

Congratulations!

When Ratter was put forward as pope, a lot of people were sad to see such a nutter in the job. But actually, the crazier the better, IMO, unless the RCC actual does change its core beliefs and practices instead of just polishing the turd of the tradition ones.

[Gaga]

When Ratter was put forward as pope, a lot of people were sad to see such a nutter in the job. But actually, the crazier the better, IMO, unless the RCC actual does change its core beliefs and practices instead of just polishing the turd of the tradition ones.
I dunno, the only fundie* I know was actually rather happy with the choice, on the basis that having a less progressive and liberal pope would have done something to reinforce the identity of a church that is losing its grip and its traditions. It makes sense, but I still think that it's being greatly counter-productive. It seems to me that most catholics in this neck of the wood are of the liberal 'light' variety and aren't particularly appreciative of the freakjob. All the better for us heathen :evil:

* I should qualify this: Italian Catholic Fundie = American Bleeding-Heart-Liberal Evangelical :D

[DMB]

I think Ratters himself has said something about wanting a tighter, more conservative church (although he didn't use that word) and it doesn't matter if it has fewer members.

[Ray Moscow]

I think Ratters himself has said something about wanting a tighter, more conservative church (although he didn't use that word) and it doesn't matter if it has fewer members.

He'll care plenty if the money -- largely from the US -- starts to dry up.

[DMB]

But there are still plenty of conservative catholics and pope-worshippers.

[Puck]

He'll care plenty if the money -- largely from the US -- starts to dry up.

Meh. They've got enough wealth at the vatican to support themselves in luxury for another couple of thousand years. The regular churches might crumble, but the inner circle will survive all but a fuckin' nuke.

[Berthold]

In Austria, church membership is part of the official personal data. One leaves church* at the magistrate office, the diocese then gets a notice from them.

*Didn't have to; never was a member. :D

[DMB]

Do they put your religion on your passport or other ID papers as, say, the Malaysians do?

[Berthold]

No, they don't. Would make difficulties in some Middle East countries :eek:, where religious non-affiliation officially does not exist.

[Ray Moscow]

No, they don't. Would make difficulties in some Middle East countries :eek:, where religious non-affiliation officially does not exist.

Saudi Arabia, for example, asks for religious affilation and sect for all visa applications.

[Matty]

Dammit does this mean my sex and beer tour of Saudi is going to have to go on hold.

[Ray Moscow]

Dammit does this mean my sex and beer tour of Saudi is going to have to go on hold.

The bridge into Saudi from Bahrain is littered with beer cans. :)

A driver told me that the border police don't care how much you drink before entering -- as long as not a drop comes in otherwise.

You won't see many women there, but I guess sex is still is option if you like the alternative.

[Berthold]

The two most dangerous jobs in the world:

Sommelier in Saudi Arabia

Go-go girl in Iran

[DMB]

I knew a guy quite a few years back who had a thriving business in Saudi. Officially it was computer maintenance, but really he was selling huge quantities of "computer disk-cleaning fluid".

[Matty]

My mate who is a pro world musician had a tour where he had secret gigs in both Saudi and N Korea amongst other hot spots. . By the sounds of it, usually performed in near darkness out the back of a locked shop, to a few trusted and personally invited people and their families.

I bet that brings an air of adrenaline to the gig. There was a write up of him in Songlines here (http://www.jasoncarter.net/Downloads/Jason%20Carter%20-%20Songline%20-%20Sept%20-%20Oct%2007.pdf) and what does he play? Satanic Metal? Sexed up Hip Hop? No, Classical fusion and neuvo flamenco fingerstyle. Evil bastard. :)

[Ray Moscow]

It's still evil in Allah's sight, bees upon him.

[Matty]

I know, if it isnt the tune from the Ice Cream truck, then Mohammad doesnt approve.

[Berthold]

I knew a guy quite a few years back who had a thriving business in Saudi. Officially it was computer maintenance, but really he was selling huge quantities of "computer disk-cleaning fluid".
This can be anything but fun. :(

I know of this case:

Two soldiers drank of the windshield wiper fluid of a military car of Austrian origin. This contained methanol. They were first healed, then beheaded. :eek:

Next thing was, the chief representative of the car manufacturer was arrested for smuggling alcohol to Saudi Arabia. It took a good lawyer to get him acquitted, on the argument that alcohols as technical solvents are legal and usual.

[DMB]

I think my guy was distilling his own.