Friends of the Secular Café: Forums
Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain
Talk Freethought
Rational Skepticism Forum
EvC Forum: Evolution vs. Creation
Living Nonreligion Discussion Forum
The Round Table (RatPags)
Talk Rational!
Blogs
Blue Collar Atheist
Camels With Hammers
Ebonmuse: Daylight Atheism
Nontheist Nexus
The Re-Enlightenment
Rosa Rubicondior
The Skeptical Zone
Watching the Deniers
Others
Christianity Disproved
Count Me Out
Ebon Musings
Freethinker.co.uk
 
       

Go Back   Secular Café > Community Forums > Secular Lifestyles & Issues

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20 Apr 2012, 04:31 PM   #356804 / #1
neilstone40
Heretic
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,102
Default NSS challenges Bear Grylls over Scouts inclusivity claims

An interesting one here from the National Secular Society Newsletter...

Quote:
The National Secular Society has written to Chief Scout Bear Grylls to challenge his recent claims that scouting is for everyone regardless of their religion, ethnicity or belief.

Following the launch of a new uniform designed especially for Muslim girls, Grylls expressed pride that the Scouts offer "an environment for people of all backgrounds to come together and enjoy themselves."

Grylls claims that the Scouts are "continuing to move with the times", but today most young people are not religious, but cannot join without making a 'Promise' that includes an oath to god.

Stephen Evans, NSS Campaigns Manager, said: "Mr Grylls' claim that scouting is for all is simply untrue. The religious oath in the Scout Promise acts as a barrier to the non-religious, who either have to make a hypocritical and dishonest statement or risk being refused full membership of the Scouts."
There's a link HERE to the letter that was sent to Grylls and a link HERE to the response from the Scout Association.

This is an interesting one for me both as an ex-Scout Leader (where I happily allowed kids without religious belief to take the quaintly titled 'Outlander Promise') and as a parent who has had 3 kids actively enjoying the benefits of Scouting while managing to avoid participating in the religious elements (not always easy)
__________________
"Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you're going to live forever."
Mahatma Gandhi
neilstone40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Apr 2012, 04:51 PM   #356811 / #2
MattShizzle
Zombie for Satan
 
MattShizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bernville, PA
Posts: 14,959
Default

In the US BSA homosexuals are also banned.
MattShizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Apr 2012, 05:39 PM   #356825 / #3
Koyaanisqatsi
Semper oppugnant quod max
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,973
Default

I was a boy scout (made it to First Class), but I never remember there being anything particularly religious or "christian" about it (and that's spanning cub scouts and webelos growing up in St. Louis and then scouts in Oregon).

I vaguely recall something about how this increased in the nineties as a result of the Mormons, or something, or some odd group that got involved or took over or the like?
Koyaanisqatsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Apr 2012, 05:42 PM   #356827 / #4
Marquez
On Vacation
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 560
Default

The only real argument my wife and I have had in recent memory was when she bought a bunch of magazines from a boy scout down the street. She and I are both strong advocates for LGBT rights and same sex marriage. Our Unitarian church was the first to marry a gay couple in the state of Iowa. And yet she purchased stuff from BSA!

Don't want to derail the thread, but feel free to PM me if you think I was wrong. I thought I was acting on high principle. My wife and I still disagree on it -- she views her actions as simply helping out a neighbor boy (whom we both like), and I view it as indirectly supporting an organization that we should probably boycott.
Marquez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Apr 2012, 06:15 PM   #356854 / #5
Worldtraveller
Will work for fun.
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: S. OR.
Posts: 3,399
Default

Given that the article specifically mentions the girl scouts, it could be that the GS is the organization that Grylls was referring to. The BS are officially religious, but the BS are not (and they have cookies!).
Worldtraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Apr 2012, 06:28 PM   #356865 / #6
neilstone40
Heretic
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,102
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquez View Post
The only real argument my wife and I have had in recent memory was when she bought a bunch of magazines from a boy scout down the street. She and I are both strong advocates for LGBT rights and same sex marriage. Our Unitarian church was the first to marry a gay couple in the state of Iowa. And yet she purchased stuff from BSA!

Don't want to derail the thread, but feel free to PM me if you think I was wrong. I thought I was acting on high principle. My wife and I still disagree on it -- she views her actions as simply helping out a neighbor boy (whom we both like), and I view it as indirectly supporting an organization that we should probably boycott.
I'm with you on that...I don't give to the Salvation Army for similar reasons although some folk give me a hard time "cos they do so much good work"...then I tell them I was one for many years of my life...
neilstone40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Apr 2012, 07:07 PM   #356886 / #7
Mediancat
Moby Dick
Mod: Politics & World Events, SL&I
Railway Line Champion
 
Mediancat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Baltimore County, MD
Posts: 3,137
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldtraveller View Post
Given that the article specifically mentions the girl scouts, it could be that the GS is the organization that Grylls was referring to. The BS are officially religious, but the BS are not (and they have cookies!).
Indeed. There've been some extreme right-wing nutjobs denigrating the girl scouts because of their inclusiveness. every time I hear one, that's an extra box of cookies I buy.

Rob
__________________
Je suis Randian, tendance James.
Mediancat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Apr 2012, 08:49 PM   #356925 / #8
crazyfingers
Meow
 
crazyfingers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,910
Default

We just signed our 11 girl up for the Girl Scouts so that she can go to summer camp.

The GS oath does include God but the GS have made it clear that one can substitute the word God for any other word that has meaning for the individual. Use "Truth" or "nature" or "justice" instead of "God". It's OK with the GSA. They don't toss out anyone for non-belief in a god. They also don't throw out lesbians.

The religious right and the catholic church have been vocal heaping condemnation on the GSA for actually not discriminating.

Do I wish that they would get rid of the "God" word? Of course. But I understand the heap of crap they would get for it and so I'm OK with the fact that they make it clear that any other meaningful word can be used instead.

ETA: of course the BSA do kick out non-believers and gays. So they are shit in my book.

Last edited by crazyfingers; 20 Apr 2012 at 09:02 PM.
crazyfingers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Apr 2012, 09:09 PM   #356937 / #9
crazyfingers
Meow
 
crazyfingers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,910
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilstone40 View Post
HERE to the response from the Scout Association.
As I understand it, the "Scout Association" is an umbrella association which different actual scout groups (BSA, GSA, etc..) belong to.

The response is the typical weasel words that I'd expect. "We don't discriminate against anyone who can say the pledge" is a dishonest dodge.

The GSA's problem is that as an organization they don't want to discriminate and they have found a way not to discriminate. But they have to keep the god in the pledge or else get thrown out of the umbrella group. There are people who are trying to get them thrown out. They are in a tough spot.
crazyfingers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Apr 2012, 10:54 PM   #356999 / #10
Roo St. Gallus
Gimme Moa!
 
Roo St. Gallus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 5,509
Default

The GSA is a great group, despite their encouraging little girls to flog tasty but unwelcome snack items door to door. Much better than the little fascist brown shirts who pass as the Boy Scouts of America. They are nothing but a bunch of closet Dominionists. From what I remember, the requirement to confess to a faith in a higher power starts with the Boy Scouts proper, and doesn't have much of an influence in the Cub Scouts. It is the move from Webelo to Second Class that carries the requirement to swear an oath, the Boy Scout Oath. In my day, we were allowed just to not say the "God and" words in the oath. And my troop was sponsored by a Methodist church.

I dropped out before I made First Class. I had better things to do than stand at attention in lines and learn to follow orders. They were a bunch of paramilitarists; my troop was, at least...all the fathers (ergo, troop leaders) were WWII or Korea veterans.
__________________
IF YOU'RE NOT OUTRAGED, YOU'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION!
Roo St. Gallus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Apr 2012, 10:59 PM   #357005 / #11
Roo St. Gallus
Gimme Moa!
 
Roo St. Gallus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 5,509
Default

These days, I recommend resurrecting the local 4H groups. I suspect help would be available through any local land grant college or agricultural extension agent. It is sponsored by ***GASP*** the government. Yes...you heard me, the government, specifically the USDA; those dastardly agriculturalists are looking to extend broad skills and promote cooperation and friendly competition and make inroads amongst the young of the nation.
Roo St. Gallus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Apr 2012, 11:10 PM   #357010 / #12
DMB
Old git
Admin; Mod: Politics & World Events; Human Rights
 
DMB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Mostly Switzerland
Posts: 32,650
Default

I joined a section of the Girl Guides when I was in my penultimate year at school. It was a complex decision. My Headmistress thought I was a bad lot because I was an atheist but wanted the kudos from any academic success I might achieve. I felt that I had been treated very hypocritically by the PTB at the school, so was prepared to fight hypocrisy with hypocrisy.

I needed a good report from the Head in order to get into university so I decided to appear to be a good member of the school. I started doing all sorts of pointless activities for my school house and I joined the school company of Guide Cadets (they were a division of the Rangers who were supposed to be training as Guiders). This involved doing all the stupid camping and stuff and divising games for Brownies.

In order to get into the Guides I had to swear to do my duty to God and the Queen. So I swallowed hard and said it.

All this activity had the desired effect: the Head thought that I had matured wonderfully.

As soon as I got into my preferred Oxford college, I left the Guides.
DMB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Secular Café > Community Forums > Secular Lifestyles & Issues

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Secular Medical Forum challenges Ed Miliband’s support for religious circumcision rog Secular Lifestyles & Issues 9 14 Mar 2013 08:08 PM
Melinda Gates challenges Vatican by vowing to improve contraception rog Politics & World Events 8 14 Jul 2012 01:15 AM
GoP Claims The Girl Scouts Are Radical Feminists phands Human Rights 7 14 Apr 2012 11:53 AM
NY State challenges Federal Defence of Marriage Act DMB Politics & World Events 14 28 Jul 2011 07:18 AM
video: James Randi challenges psychics and charlatans rog Life, the Universe, & Everything 3 21 Apr 2010 03:50 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
 
Ocean Zero by vBSkins.com | Customised by Antechinus