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Old 13 Mar 2010, 05:51 AM   #117083 / #1
Rie
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Default "It has served us well, this myth of Christ."

I was at the library and found again the book in which a Pope had said "It has served us well, this myth of Christ."
It was Pope Leo X in the 16th century.

This discussion began in this thread.

Last edited by Jobar; 14 Mar 2010 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 13 Mar 2010, 07:46 AM   #117098 / #2
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Wow, really? Which book? Did Leo write this book of yours? What was the title?
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Old 13 Mar 2010, 08:07 AM   #117102 / #3
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Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
Wow, really? Which book? Did Leo write this book of yours? What was the title?
It is a quote which seems fairly widely attributed to Leo. Google doesn't show any strong evidence that he actually said it, though.

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Old 13 Mar 2010, 08:21 AM   #117104 / #4
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Quite a well-known forgery actually, that's why I was poking fun. The funny thing is, it wouldn't be surprising if he had- everyone knows he was a cynical Medici stooge who took his office only as seriously as it made him rich and got him into bed with any woman in Christendom. But he didn't as far as anyone knows, it was a Protestant preacher who'd never met him who accused him of it.
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Old 14 Mar 2010, 12:41 AM   #117263 / #5
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Re the Leo X quote- I found this quote from a 2006 discussion:
Quote:
This "myth" quote actually comes from the English playwright John Bale in his satirical work:"The Pageant of Popes"
added- This seems the relevant quote.
Quote:
Leo the tenth was a Florentine borne, of the noble house of Medicea, and called ere he were Pope John Medices. He being Deacon and Cardinal of Saint Maries, contrarie to all hope was chosen to succede Julius. He beinge diligetly from his youth trained up in learning under learned schoolmaisters, and especially one Angelus Politianus, did afterward greatly favour learned men. When he was but. xiv. yeres olde he was made cardinall by Innocentius the. viii. and at the yeres of xxxviii. he obtained the papacie. This Leo was of his owne nature a gentil and quiet person:but often times ruled by those that were cruell and contencious men, whom he suffered to do in many matters according to their insolent wil. He addicting himselfe to nicenesse, and takinge ease did pamper his fleshe in diverse vanities and carnal pleasures: At banqueting he delighted greatly in wine and musike: but had no care of preaching the Gospell, nay was rather a cruell persecutour of those that began then, as Luther and other to reveale the light thereof: for on a time when a cardinall Bembus did move a question out of the Gospell, the Pope gave him a very contemptuouse aunswere saiying: All ages can testifie enough howe profitable that fable of Christe hath ben to us and our companie: Sleidan faith he sente letters and bulles of pardons into all nations for suche as woulde give money for them, the effectes of his pardons were diverse, some especially to sell licence to eate butter, chese, egges, milke, and fleshe upon forbidden dates, and for this purpose he sent divers treasurers into al coutreis, and namelye one Samson a monke of Millaine into Germany, who by these pardons gathered out of sundrie places such hewge sommes of money that the worlde wondered at it, for he offered in one day to geve for the Papacie above an hundred and twentie thousand duckates.
Bale wrote many bitter and satirical denunciations of the Catholic Church, many in the form of plays.

I find no other sources of comparable age indicating this quote actually comes from Leo. While Leo was definitely one of many totally corrupt Popes, it would seem this quote is probably mis-attributed to him.

Last edited by Jobar; 14 Mar 2010 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 14 Mar 2010, 06:11 AM   #117301 / #6
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So he was more likely to be one of those who fell under the sway of the Devil in whatever form the Devil is and was perceived?
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Old 14 Mar 2010, 06:57 AM   #117308 / #7
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Oh, hey, Rie, you never answered my question. Where did you read that quote? Did Leo write it?
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Old 15 Mar 2010, 06:57 AM   #117508 / #8
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I read it- and it has been quoted and commented on by Jobar- in a book by a Raymond Khoury.
Why should you doubt that a corrupt Church, especially in the 16th century would see Christ like this?
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Old 15 Mar 2010, 08:18 AM   #117518 / #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rie View Post
I was at the library and found again the book in which a Pope had said "It has served us well, this myth of Christ."
It was Pope Leo X in the 16th century.
The word "myth" tends to be understood as a synonym for legend or fairy tale. But a myth can be interpreted as the narrative of an historical event - especially one that occurred in ancient times when oral accounts of the past had to be depended on. A myth can also be an explanation of social or natural phenomena in pre-scientific societies. And finally, myths can symbolize truths.

So if Leo X described Christ as a "useful myth", it might not be a candid admission of false pretences.
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Old 15 Mar 2010, 08:21 AM   #117519 / #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rie View Post
I read it- and it has been quoted and commented on by Jobar- in a book by a Raymond Khoury.
And what was Khoury's source?

Quote:
Why should you doubt that a corrupt Church, especially in the 16th century would see Christ like this?
Why should you believe something without evidence?
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Old 15 Mar 2010, 09:48 AM   #117525 / #11
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Oh give me a break! I had no reason to doubt the quote on the frontispiece of a well known author.
I suggest that you address any further sarcasm to Raymond Khoury.
Leave me out of any emotional reaction you may be feeling re an author's dedication and quote on the frontispiece of one of his books!
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