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Old 28 Apr 2012, 02:55 PM   #359606 / #101
Koyaanisqatsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valheru View Post
You can't define altruism that way. By definition, altruism is a choice that benefits the recipient and which may or may not harm the giver. You can't say there is no effect on the giver.
I didn't. I said it's an act that ostensibly entails its own reward whereby neither the agent nor the recipient are harmed or detracted from. Obviously if there is a particular scenario where the giver is harmed or detracted from, that would not entail a "reward" for the giver, but that would depend on the details.

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The nature of these effects and why people choose them even when faced possibly with death is the point of the discussion after all, innit?
Not necessarily (it was about moral responsibility), but, ok. So we have two different scenarios:
  1. The Quid Pro Quo expectation scenario of the OP
  2. The Altruism scenario

In both scenarios, there is a giver and at least one recipient and the motivations for acting are myriad in either, so let's limit the discussion initially to the scenario in general, yes? Or if not, at least as a starting point.

In 1, the general motivation of the giver in regard to the receiver is apparently to impose a "moral onus" (to coin a seemingly dirty phrase and excellent band name) onto the recipient; a tacit expectation of repayment for benefits given. Let's call it the Randian Assumption of Contract (RAC).

In 2, the motivation of the giver in regard to the receiver is that no such RAC is imposed as a necessary condition. So, Anti-RAC.

So which of these two scenarios should society seek or encourage or otherwise indoctrinate? RAC or ARAC? What are their pros and cons?
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Old 28 Apr 2012, 11:28 PM   #359698 / #102
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The pain factor rides on the back of a giver... or the chance that it will. Genius or high intelligence must not be withheld in some kind of vacuum. But the pain, the pain as human history shows is inevitable.
My viewpoint is based on my idea that somewhere along the line there were two completely different groups or types of mankind. And sadly today's history is no different.
It's harder for intelligent women.
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Old 07 May 2012, 10:49 AM   #362604 / #103
kennyc
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Originally Posted by BWE View Post
...

Lol. That is really funny. That would be a great band name. "not a slave to the greater good"
Seems the most intelligent statement in the thread so far.

in response to the O.P. --

No. (as was said initially by several.)

Simply being alive does not mean I(or anyone else) owe the universe anything.
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Old 07 May 2012, 10:52 AM   #362608 / #104
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Originally Posted by Valheru View Post
The whole premise of this thread is daft. Society did not come into being due to moralistic altruism, it came into being because of mechanistic bartering....
Voice of truth.

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Old 07 May 2012, 10:56 AM   #362612 / #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mood2 View Post
love isn't a disorder
It's a battlefield.
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Originally Posted by mood2 View Post
love is a stranger...
I was going to say that! Gotta love PB!
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Old 21 May 2012, 05:08 AM   #366495 / #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediancat View Post
And the set-to between Valheru & DavidM (with special guest commentary from Kali) has been moved to the Smoking Section.

Kindly take all further ramifications of the argument there.

Thank you.
Mediocrity Cat throwing his tiny weight around again, just like he reveled in doing at iidb. Big he-man who delivered the news of who was banned in invariably pompous tones. Gives meaning and purpose to his life, I guess. Sort of like God.
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