Friends of the Secular Café: Forums
Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain
Talk Freethought
Rational Skepticism Forum
EvC Forum: Evolution vs. Creation
Living Nonreligion Discussion Forum
The Round Table (RatPags)
Talk Rational!
Blogs
Blue Collar Atheist
Camels With Hammers
Ebonmuse: Daylight Atheism
Nontheist Nexus
The Re-Enlightenment
Rosa Rubicondior
The Skeptical Zone
Watching the Deniers
Others
Christianity Disproved
Count Me Out
Ebon Musings
Freethinker.co.uk
 
       

Go Back   Secular Café > Community Forums > Secular Lifestyles & Issues

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 30 Apr 2012, 05:12 PM   #360132 / #1
neilstone40
Heretic
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,103
Default Religion in classrooms

A couple of articles here from the BBC News website.

The first one highlights the fact that many parents are unaware of their rights to withdraw children from Religious Education and communal acts of worship, especially as schools are failing to inform them despite being obliged to do so...

Quote:
Parents 'not being told' of religious education opt-out

The survey gathered experiences from the parents of primary and secondary pupils

Schools may be failing on obligations to make parents aware of a right to withdraw their children from religious lessons, a study has suggested.

Schools have had to alert parents that children can opt out of religious classes and assemblies since 2005.

But only 20% of parents asked by YouGov on behalf of the Humanist Society of Scotland said they had picked up this information from schools.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17886181
The second (a short video report - just under 2 minutes) explores different perceptions of the Religious Education/Religious Observance, whether it's beneficial to children's understanding of other beliefs or often just thinly veiled indoctrination marginalising children from non-Christian faiths/non-believers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17896005
__________________
"Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you're going to live forever."
Mahatma Gandhi
neilstone40 is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 02 May 2012, 01:20 AM   #360627 / #2
Dinah-Moe Humm
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 28
Default

Hey! I won't think in your church and you don't pray in my school!
Dinah-Moe Humm is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 02 May 2012, 08:06 AM   #360697 / #3
neilstone40
Heretic
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinah-Moe Humm View Post
Hey! I won't think in your church and you don't pray in my school!
I like that...
neilstone40 is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 02 May 2012, 12:56 PM   #360753 / #4
cnorman18
Senior Member
 
cnorman18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 2,123
Default

How odd. Here, in the supposedly overwhelmingly fundamentalist and repressive United States, this sort of thing -- teaching religion in tax-supported public schools -- is unequivocally illegal.
__________________
"The Torah is true, and some of it may even have happened."
-- Rabbi William Gershon
"Faith is hope, not fact."
-- Herman Wouk
cnorman18 is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 02 May 2012, 01:46 PM   #360775 / #5
Cath B
Super Gardener
Crazy Closet Champion, Candy Tetris Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: North of the Forth
Posts: 12,938
Default

Rereading this thread I suddenly had a thought.

Fifty years ago most Primary School heads and class teachers in Britain had enough superficial knowledge of Christianity to feel comfortable meeting the religious requirements of the Education Act by telling children fables about the Good Samaritan and so on.

But nowadays, with today's teachers less likely to have attended Sunday School or attend church as adults, they may be less confident of their own background knowledge and happier than in the past to allow outside agencies to meet the gap.

And said outside agencies may indoctrinate the children with reference to the more disturbing parts of the bible without the headteachers even realising that this is happening.
Cath B is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 02 May 2012, 02:54 PM   #360803 / #6
neilstone40
Heretic
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnorman18 View Post
How odd. Here, in the supposedly overwhelmingly fundamentalist and repressive United States, this sort of thing -- teaching religion in tax-supported public schools -- is unequivocally illegal.
Over here it's enshrined in law not just to teach RE but to have regular (and I quote) "communal acts of worship which will be broadly Christian in nature".

In practice that means pretty much exclusively Christian with the occassional nod to other beliefs and utterly nothing about non belief.

Kids are coerced/pressured into worship and punished for not singing or praying. Acts of worship are so deeply embedded in school activities that exercising your legal right to remove your child from worship or RE also means excluding them from a wide range of school activities.

Evangelical groups are given access to children within the school day to present their case although most schools don't even classify this as RE or worship so even if you've withdrawn your children, chances are they could still end up getting preached at.

It's unfair, discriminatory and divisive.
neilstone40 is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 02 May 2012, 03:00 PM   #360806 / #7
cnorman18
Senior Member
 
cnorman18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 2,123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilstone40 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnorman18 View Post
How odd. Here, in the supposedly overwhelmingly fundamentalist and repressive United States, this sort of thing -- teaching religion in tax-supported public schools -- is unequivocally illegal.
Over here it's enshrined in law not just to teach RE but to have regular (and I quote) "communal acts of worship which will be broadly Christian in nature".

In practice that means pretty much exclusively Christian with the occassional nod to other beliefs and utterly nothing about non belief.

Kids are coerced/pressured into worship and punished for not singing or praying. Acts of worship are so deeply embedded in school activities that exercising your legal right to remove your child from worship or RE also means excluding them from a wide range of school activities.

Evangelical groups are given access to children within the school day to present their case although most schools don't even classify this as RE or worship so even if you've withdrawn your children, chances are they could still end up getting preached at.

It's unfair, discriminatory and divisive.
??

And people say we Americans have a problem with religious indoctrination? Those practices are just bizarre. Even the Christians over here wouldn't tolerate that sort of thing -- their children might get preached to by some group other than their own. How is this allowed to continue? What are you secularists doing about it?
cnorman18 is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 02 May 2012, 03:31 PM   #360814 / #8
neilstone40
Heretic
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnorman18 View Post

??

And people say we Americans have a problem with religious indoctrination? Those practices are just bizarre. Even the Christians over here wouldn't tolerate that sort of thing -- their children might get preached to by some group other than their own. How is this allowed to continue? What are you secularists doing about it?

There are ongoing campaigns to get the law changed to remove the communal act of worship from schools and to either remove RE or ensure that all beliefs, be they religious or otherwise, are treated in a fair and equitable manner.

The problem is, we have politicians, public figures and even the Queen spouting on about "our proud Christian heritage" and claiming we should be celebrating the contribution Christianity has made to the UK.

The whole issue of secularism and humanism is regularly misrepresented and we are the focus of a lot of demonisation. It's often suggested that we want to stop people from worshiping which, apart from a handful of whackjob extremists, is utterly false.

The hardest part though is getting any form of fair representation in the media so that the issue can be presented as it actually is.
neilstone40 is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 02 May 2012, 03:57 PM   #360821 / #9
phands
Long term atheist
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Manhattan New York
Posts: 10,967
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnorman18 View Post

??

And people say we Americans have a problem with religious indoctrination? Those practices are just bizarre. Even the Christians over here wouldn't tolerate that sort of thing -- their children might get preached to by some group other than their own. How is this allowed to continue? What are you secularists doing about it?

We have different problems with it. The US has constitutional separation of church and state, which the rethugs are intent on ignoring/repealing, and religion is in your face everywhere anyway. The UK doesn't have a constitution as such, and religion isn't so in your face, but is inherent and implicit beneath the surface.
__________________
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
phands is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 02 May 2012, 04:20 PM   #360826 / #10
rog
*
 
rog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 12,712
Default

I wonder...

In the not to near future I will be running some courses for our humanist group, don't worry I didn't write them - there must me a few retired members who would enjoy the opportunity to get in on the idea of replacing RE in schools with a secular alternative and these courses could form the basis for that. Does anyone think this is a viable idea? We are also on the SACRE, for what good it is worth, so it would not be impossible to come up with a plan that met most of the things that RE is designed* to hammer into kids, but in our own special way. Maybe then we could have our alternative promoted as an option, I would certainly want to see it advertised to parents.

*seriously look it up.
rog is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 03 May 2012, 05:36 AM   #361134 / #11
trendkill
Senior Member
Mini KickUps Champion, KickUps Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,056
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnorman18 View Post
How odd. Here, in the supposedly overwhelmingly fundamentalist and repressive United States, this sort of thing -- teaching religion in tax-supported public schools -- is unequivocally illegal.
However, regardless of legality, it does happen. Every once in a while there is a lawsuit over it, but the practice still continues.
trendkill is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 03 May 2012, 06:59 PM   #361437 / #12
Lugubert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 545
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cath B View Post
Fifty years ago most Primary School heads and class teachers in Britain had enough superficial knowledge of Christianity to feel comfortable meeting the religious requirements of the Education Act by telling children fables about the Good Samaritan and so on.
There is a proposal in Denmark to abolish the subject Religion (= Lutheran Christian), Life Philosophy and Citizenship from teachers' education.
Lugubert is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 03 May 2012, 09:09 PM   #361503 / #13
Clivedurdle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cath B View Post
Rereading this thread I suddenly had a thought.

Fifty years ago most Primary School heads and class teachers in Britain had enough superficial knowledge of Christianity to feel comfortable meeting the religious requirements of the Education Act by telling children fables about the Good Samaritan and so on.

But nowadays, with today's teachers less likely to have attended Sunday School or attend church as adults, they may be less confident of their own background knowledge and happier than in the past to allow outside agencies to meet the gap.

And said outside agencies may indoctrinate the children with reference to the more disturbing parts of the bible without the headteachers even realising that this is happening.
I agree. Religion in UK was like a weak cannabis, but now they are being fed heavy duty varieties.
__________________
If you don't eat your meat you can't have your pudding, how can you have your pudding if you don't eat your meat?
Clivedurdle is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Secular Café > Community Forums > Secular Lifestyles & Issues

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Indiana shelves creationism in classrooms bill - for now. phands Creation & Alternative Science 1 22 Feb 2012 02:37 PM
Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms LoneWolf Politics & World Events 48 23 May 2011 09:35 PM
New push for creation in U.S. classrooms. DanB Politics & World Events 13 25 Mar 2011 06:56 PM
European Court bans crucifixes in classrooms David B Religion 13 06 Nov 2009 01:58 PM
No Jesus dinosaurs in Texas classrooms Notta Life, the Universe, & Everything 4 27 Mar 2009 05:47 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
 
Ocean Zero by vBSkins.com | Customised by Antechinus