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Old 08 Sep 2012, 03:34 PM   #401188 / #1
phands
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Default What If Animal Testing Brought A Cure For Cancer?

http://www.care2.com/causes/what-if-...or-cancer.html

An interesting question.....

Quote:
If medical research on animals would pave the way to a cure for cancer, would it be OK? A pharmaceutical company headquartered in Vancouver, Canada is putting the question to the test; they’ve credited a key study using mice to a breakthrough treatment for brain and breast cancer.

biOasis Technologies, Inc. released a statement that their new medical regime looked promising to stop the growth of tumors in human patients with metastasized brain cancer and breast cancer. During the past year, the company has conducted research by transplanting highly aggressive human breast cancer cells under the skin of mice and treating them twice a week for six weeks with their new drug, BT2111, Herceptin (R) or a placebo. The tumors in the mice of the control group grew by a devastating 400 percent. The tumors in the mice that received the new treatment were completely stopped and the animals had very few side effects.
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Old 08 Sep 2012, 04:06 PM   #401195 / #2
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I'm going to say that I think that it is justified, but that does require me to think of animals as a resource to be exploited for human benefit - experiments should be as humane as possible and have strict ethical oversight.
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Old 08 Sep 2012, 04:13 PM   #401196 / #3
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I'm going to say that I think that it is justified, but that does require me to think of animals as a resource to be exploited for human benefit - experiments should be as humane as possible and have strict ethical oversight.
As is now pretty much the case

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Old 08 Sep 2012, 04:14 PM   #401198 / #4
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Quote:
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I'm going to say that I think that it is justified, but that does require me to think of animals as a resource to be exploited for human benefit - experiments should be as humane as possible and have strict ethical oversight.
As is now pretty much the case
I know, I'm pretty much ok with the way things are run now.
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Old 08 Sep 2012, 04:53 PM   #401203 / #5
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Well, a single cure for "cancer" is all but impossible - cancer isn't a single disease. Best that can be hoped for is cures for each type of cancer. As to the question it would be worth it if done as described and as much as possible not on higher animals to find a cure for any specific form of cancer.
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Old 08 Sep 2012, 05:10 PM   #401206 / #6
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It's a bummer for mice that they share certain characteristics with a species capable of exploiting them this way, but if these sort of tests need to be done I'd rather it's on mice than people.
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Old 08 Sep 2012, 09:53 PM   #401263 / #7
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I watched a series on Foxtel (Satellite) which detailed a recent outbreak of a highly contagious mystery fatal epidemic in the making. And in fact it turned out to be spread by rodents of a non typical species of rodent. It really is a horrible sight to watch a wee little creature used to determine human issues... but it's them or us as it has been for all of our species from time immemorial.
Some might say that we aren't worth the effort. (This may be my gastric wog talking but the history of the human race is littered with epic and gruesome events... such as the Spanish Inquisition.)
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Old 08 Sep 2012, 10:55 PM   #401273 / #8
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Why not skip the animal testing and go right to human trials? You're going to have to do human testing at some point anyway before a product's approved for marketing. The results would be more valid and you'd save a lot of time, money and effort wasted on animal experiments that didn't pan out.
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Old 08 Sep 2012, 11:15 PM   #401275 / #9
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Why not skip the animal testing and go right to human trials? You're going to have to do human testing at some point anyway before a product's approved for marketing. The results would be more valid and you'd save a lot of time, money and effort wasted on animal experiments that didn't pan out.
Lots of dead people though...
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Old 08 Sep 2012, 11:21 PM   #401279 / #10
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I sort of feel some sort of hierarchy regarding animal testing.

I find that I don't really care a jot about testing on fruit flies, am concerned that lab animals like rats and mice should be treated as humanely as possible, and I'm very uncomfortable about experimentation on primates.

I'm not entirely sure that I could justify this sort of....prejudice? Moral intuition?... in a waterproof manner, but for all that it is something that I find myself feeling quite strongly about.

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Old 08 Sep 2012, 11:27 PM   #401281 / #11
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I'll add a new dimension.....I don't care if we test on animals that are in no shortage or danger of extinction.

<provocation mode>
The world will never run out of rats, mice, flies, cats, dogs.....test away!!
</provocation mode>
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Old 08 Sep 2012, 11:48 PM   #401287 / #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rog View Post
Quote:
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Why not skip the animal testing and go right to human trials? You're going to have to do human testing at some point anyway before a product's approved for marketing. The results would be more valid and you'd save a lot of time, money and effort wasted on animal experiments that didn't pan out.
Lots of dead people though...
Exactly.
And if this is not a problem with animals, why would it be a problem with humans? What puts humans in a different moral category than animals?
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Old 08 Sep 2012, 11:53 PM   #401289 / #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sey View Post
Why not skip the animal testing and go right to human trials? You're going to have to do human testing at some point anyway before a product's approved for marketing. The results would be more valid and you'd save a lot of time, money and effort wasted on animal experiments that didn't pan out.
Lots of dead people though...
Exactly.
And if this is not a problem with animals, why would it be a problem with humans? What puts humans in a different moral category than animals?
Not so much what as who, perhaps.

Humans put humans in a different moral category, most of the time.

David
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Old 09 Sep 2012, 12:06 AM   #401293 / #14
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It's a BS argument. Most cancers are preventable with a proper amount of proper sun exposure or supplementing with vitamin d3.

Theres no need to continue to rationalize the ongoing murder of other species for cancer cures.
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Old 09 Sep 2012, 12:08 AM   #401295 / #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David B View Post
Not so much what as who, perhaps.

Humans put humans in a different moral category, most of the time.

David
Yes we do, but the question is how we justify it. What features do humans have that legitimately place them in a separate moral category?

The question comes up frequently, but the characteristics cited either turn out not to be unique to humans or to be on a continuum of degree.
If our exploitation of animals boils down in the end to might-makes-right, how would using humans -- prisoners, perhaps -- be any less justifiable than using animal models?
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Old 09 Sep 2012, 12:09 AM   #401296 / #16
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It's a BS argument. Most cancers are preventable with a proper amount of proper sun exposure or supplementing with vitamin d3.

Theres no need to continue to rationalize the ongoing murder of other species for cancer cures.
This is simply not true, or if it is, you can't possibly know it to be true - if you want to keep on about it, please do so in the thread that you started http://secularcafe.org/showthread.php?t=20571
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Old 09 Sep 2012, 12:14 AM   #401297 / #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by praxis View Post
It's a BS argument. Most cancers are preventable with a proper amount of proper sun exposure or supplementing with vitamin d3.

Theres no need to continue to rationalize the ongoing murder of other species for cancer cures.
This is simply not true, or if it is, you can't possibly know it to be true - if you want to keep on about it, please do so in the thread that you started http://secularcafe.org/showthread.php?t=20571
Like what's being regurgitated here is any more credible? It's a "what if..." thread for goodness sakes. Where's your demands for proving murdering and torturing other species is the answer?
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Old 09 Sep 2012, 12:17 AM   #401298 / #18
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Originally Posted by praxis View Post
It's a BS argument. Most cancers are preventable with a proper amount of proper sun exposure or supplementing with vitamin d3.

Theres no need to continue to rationalize the ongoing murder of other species for cancer cures.

Not Even WrongTM
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Old 09 Sep 2012, 12:20 AM   #401299 / #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praxis View Post
It's a BS argument. Most cancers are preventable with a proper amount of proper sun exposure or supplementing with vitamin d3.

Theres no need to continue to rationalize the ongoing murder of other species for cancer cures.

Not Even WrongTM
pfft!
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Old 09 Sep 2012, 12:24 AM   #401301 / #20
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pfft!

Great reply

How do you feel about eradicating smallpox?
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Old 09 Sep 2012, 12:28 AM   #401303 / #21
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pfft!

Great reply

How do you feel about eradicating smallpox?
The discussion is cancer.
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Old 09 Sep 2012, 12:29 AM   #401304 / #22
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It was..until you included other species...


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Theres no need to continue to rationalize the ongoing murder of other species for cancer cures.
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Old 09 Sep 2012, 12:38 AM   #401307 / #23
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[derail]Why am I reminded of this thread?

[/derail]
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Old 09 Sep 2012, 12:39 AM   #401308 / #24
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Quote:
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It was..until you included other species...


Quote:
Theres no need to continue to rationalize the ongoing murder of other species for cancer cures.
Am I imagining the thread title?
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Old 09 Sep 2012, 12:41 AM   #401309 / #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phands View Post
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Originally Posted by praxis View Post
pfft!

Great reply

How do you feel about eradicating smallpox?
The discussion is cancer.
OK...what about Human Papilloma Virus?
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