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Old 29 Jan 2018, 05:11 PM   #683275 / #1376
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Only thing is, the definition contains "small group". And most religions aren't small. Again, differing only in number of members. Perhaps there should be a new word: gigacult, since there are billions of them.
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Old 29 Jan 2018, 06:37 PM   #683276 / #1377
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And, a 'cultist' is someone who fervently believes something you don't?
It's the other way round; people who believe in God are all "cultists".
Ah. Something I can agree with.

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Old 29 Jan 2018, 06:46 PM   #683277 / #1378
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Secular schools can be just as deleterious to the mind of a growing child than any other institutions that indoctrinate. They can be crippling too.

On average, religious brainwashing is probably more consistently done and more severe, but the situation is not black and white. Not all religious indoctrination is anything like Jesus Camp.

(Not loaded: 4cVpkzZpDBA)
(View video on YouTube)
That song shows my Gnostic Christian aesoteric ecumenist view.

Jesus camp, and all religious indoctrination shows only one of many Gods.

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Old 29 Jan 2018, 07:15 PM   #683278 / #1379
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Well, I personally think that Koy is the guru of a conspiracy cult.

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Old 29 Jan 2018, 07:23 PM   #683279 / #1380
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Well, I personally think that Koy is the guru of a conspiracy cult.

I tend not to brand people and just go by what they put in the post I am answering to.

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Old 29 Jan 2018, 09:13 PM   #683283 / #1381
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Well, I personally think that Koy is the guru of a conspiracy cult.

Fair cop.
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Old 29 Jan 2018, 09:19 PM   #683284 / #1382
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Only thing is, the definition contains "small group".
As written by cult members.

A cult is always what the other religions are, never the one you’re in. Amazing how that works.

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Again, differing only in number of members.
Exactly. The victors write the history (and the definitions) and in this case, particularly, the victors have all been cult members of the world’s largest cult (aka, the Christian cult), which has over 22,000 sects. But the truly defining quality, of course, is how they indoctrinate/brainwash their members.

A spectrum to be sure, but fundamentally all the same process.
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Old 30 Jan 2018, 12:06 AM   #683285 / #1383
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A cult is always what the other religions are, never the one you’re in. Amazing how that works.
That's the admission I was expecting. Thank you, Koy.
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Old 30 Jan 2018, 03:23 AM   #683295 / #1384
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Old 30 Jan 2018, 06:11 AM   #683302 / #1385
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I feel like you are learning the wrong lesson from that diagram.

But I suppose our own prejudices are always the hardest to see clearly.
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Old 30 Jan 2018, 07:15 AM   #683304 / #1386
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I feel like you are learning the wrong lesson from that diagram.

But I suppose our own prejudices are always the hardest to see clearly.
What is the right lesson? Is something wrong with that diagram? I'm willing to learn.
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Old 30 Jan 2018, 01:31 PM   #683306 / #1387
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A cult is always what the other religions are, never the one you’re in. Amazing how that works.
That's the admission I was expecting. Thank you, Koy.
That’s the equivocation fallacy I was expecting. Thank you, Roo.
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Old 30 Jan 2018, 03:57 PM   #683311 / #1388
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I feel like you are learning the wrong lesson from that diagram.

But I suppose our own prejudices are always the hardest to see clearly.
I posted that mostly as a joke, but like Hermit, I'd be interested in hearing your interpretation of it.
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Old 30 Jan 2018, 05:52 PM   #683313 / #1389
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A cult is always what the other religions are, never the one you’re in. Amazing how that works.
That's the admission I was expecting. Thank you, Koy.
That’s the equivocation fallacy I was expecting. Thank you, Roo.
And I wouldn't expect you to be any less phallic about it.
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Old 30 Jan 2018, 08:04 PM   #683317 / #1390
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I posted that mostly as a joke
I love it, because joke or not, it's a graphic representation of exactly what I said. if you don't pay attention to number of members (which the graph doesn't), cults and religions are identical.

It shows different reactions from the outside, but that has nothing to do with the nature of the cults themselves.
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Old 30 Jan 2018, 10:53 PM   #683323 / #1391
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I feel like you are learning the wrong lesson from that diagram.

But I suppose our own prejudices are always the hardest to see clearly.
What is the right lesson? Is something wrong with that diagram? I'm willing to learn.
The distinction between religion and cult is connotational rather than functional. I think we agree on this much. But perhaps not on the degree to which we should indulge in negative connotations.
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Old 30 Jan 2018, 11:22 PM   #683328 / #1392
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The people who use negative terms feel they are justified, and those they apply to do not. People who are in prison probably don't like "criminal" or "felon" either.
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 01:59 AM   #683329 / #1393
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The people who use negative terms feel they are justified, and those they apply to do not. People who are in prison probably don't like "criminal" or "felon" either.
Well, I'd be with them on that, too. Lazy pejoratives are not something the wise indulge in carelessly in my opinion. Terms like "felon" erase all sense of scale with respect to crime, and encourage people to think of the entire prison population as dangerous thugs not worthy of concern, which in turn encourages abuse of prisoners and a lack of public support for penitentiary reforms.
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 02:42 AM   #683331 / #1394
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I feel like you are learning the wrong lesson from that diagram.

But I suppose our own prejudices are always the hardest to see clearly.
What is the right lesson? Is something wrong with that diagram? I'm willing to learn.
The distinction between religion and cult is connotational rather than functional. I think we agree on this much. But perhaps not on the degree to which we should indulge in negative connotations.
Would you unpack that for me, please?
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 03:29 AM   #683333 / #1395
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The people who use negative terms feel they are justified, and those they apply to do not. People who are in prison probably don't like "criminal" or "felon" either.
Well, I'd be with them on that, too. Lazy pejoratives are not something the wise indulge in carelessly in my opinion. Terms like "felon" erase all sense of scale with respect to crime, and encourage people to think of the entire prison population as dangerous thugs not worthy of concern, which in turn encourages abuse of prisoners and a lack of public support for penitentiary reforms.
Felon is not a valid term for someone who committed a felony? It in fact does have to do with the scale of the crime, in that they committed a felony. I'm not an expert on incarceration, but I think misdemeanors go to county jail rather than prison.

What term would you use for someone in prison? Involuntary guest of the state for reasons unknown?
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 04:11 AM   #683334 / #1396
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The people who use negative terms feel they are justified, and those they apply to do not. People who are in prison probably don't like "criminal" or "felon" either.
Well, I'd be with them on that, too. Lazy pejoratives are not something the wise indulge in carelessly in my opinion. Terms like "felon" erase all sense of scale with respect to crime, and encourage people to think of the entire prison population as dangerous thugs not worthy of concern, which in turn encourages abuse of prisoners and a lack of public support for penitentiary reforms.
Felon is not a valid term for someone who committed a felony? It in fact does have to do with the scale of the crime, in that they committed a felony. I'm not an expert on incarceration, but I think misdemeanors go to county jail rather than prison.

What term would you use for someone in prison? Involuntary guest of the state for reasons unknown?
Lawyer, are you?
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 05:03 AM   #683336 / #1397
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The people who use negative terms feel they are justified, and those they apply to do not. People who are in prison probably don't like "criminal" or "felon" either.
Well, I'd be with them on that, too. Lazy pejoratives are not something the wise indulge in carelessly in my opinion. Terms like "felon" erase all sense of scale with respect to crime, and encourage people to think of the entire prison population as dangerous thugs not worthy of concern, which in turn encourages abuse of prisoners and a lack of public support for penitentiary reforms.
Felon is not a valid term for someone who committed a felony? It in fact does have to do with the scale of the crime, in that they committed a felony. I'm not an expert on incarceration, but I think misdemeanors go to county jail rather than prison.

What term would you use for someone in prison? Involuntary guest of the state for reasons unknown?
Lawyer, are you?
I didn't ask what the term should be for me. I asked what the term should be for them.
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 05:29 AM   #683337 / #1398
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I feel like you are learning the wrong lesson from that diagram.

But I suppose our own prejudices are always the hardest to see clearly.
What is the right lesson? Is something wrong with that diagram? I'm willing to learn.
The distinction between religion and cult is connotational rather than functional. I think we agree on this much. But perhaps not on the degree to which we should indulge in negative connotations.
Would you unpack that for me, please?
Yeah, got it now. You are right - the distinction between religion and cult is connotational rather than functional. That's why the aspect religions and cults share is so prominent in that Venn diagram.

Now I wonder what the wrong lesson might be.
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