Friends of the Secular Café: Forums
Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain
Talk Freethought
Rational Skepticism Forum
EvC Forum: Evolution vs. Creation
Living Nonreligion Discussion Forum
The Round Table (RatPags)
Talk Rational!
Blogs
Blue Collar Atheist
Camels With Hammers
Ebonmuse: Daylight Atheism
Nontheist Nexus
The Re-Enlightenment
Rosa Rubicondior
The Skeptical Zone
Watching the Deniers
Others
Christianity Disproved
Count Me Out
Ebon Musings
Freethinker.co.uk
 
       

Go Back   Secular Café > Intellectual Debate and Discussion Forums > Religion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03 May 2012, 06:22 PM   #361382 / #1
Worldtraveller
Will work for fun.
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: S. OR.
Posts: 3,771
Default Shocking news: One's religion determined mostly by accident of birth!

Outsider test of faith.
And yet, most believers think theirs is the one correct religion.

I would like to see a similar map, with percentages of believers that believe:

1. The religionist denies that approach as they are utterly convinced that they are actually right. Mine is the One True Religion (TM).
2. The religionist admits that theirs is not the only true religion, but that each religion apprehends The Divine(TM) in a way that reflects cultural norms. And you atheists are still wrong, wrong, wrong.

And in other news: Ozy's still grumpy. Film at eleven!
Worldtraveller is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 03 May 2012, 11:10 PM   #361540 / #2
Barefoot Bree
Token Aging Flower Child
 
Barefoot Bree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: On the highway - could be anywhere!
Posts: 9,312
Default

Single post moved to the appropriate SS thread, here. Let's all leave off the potshots, OK? [Glares at everybody, including the OP.]
__________________
There's no such thing as "political correctness". The phrase you're looking for is "Common Decency".
"Said" it? Sink me! She almost SANG it!
Barefoot Bree is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 04 May 2012, 02:43 AM   #361631 / #3
Politesse
Sapere aude
 
Politesse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chochenyo territory
Posts: 19,407
Default

Hmmm, yes. Most people speak the language of their place of birth as well. And wear clothing familiar to the culture of their birth. And make almost all moral and ethical decisions based on assumptions ingrained in them before they could walk.

This does not, in my opinion speak positively or negatively toward truth value, or superiority of one idea or behavior over another. It's just a fact of life that we are empathetic, imitative, cultural creatures, whose "self" never occurs in a vacuum.
__________________
"The truth about stories is that's all we are" ~Thomas King
Politesse is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 04 May 2012, 02:37 PM   #361757 / #4
trendkill
Senior Member
Mini KickUps Champion, KickUps Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,056
Default

Ugh, that Outsider Test for Faith thing is just a confusing and oblique way of approaching this issue, I always have a bit of a WTF moment when John Loftus' weirdness crops up. The maps, on the other hand, are very clear and straightforward in their point, which seems to be that reason-based beliefs are the same everywhere, but religion varies by where the believer was born. Obviously they comprise a vast oversimplification which leaves out a lot, such as the fact that science and reason are not identical concepts, for instance, but there seems to be support for atheological arguments from confusion here.
trendkill is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 04 May 2012, 02:56 PM   #361763 / #5
Barefoot Bree
Token Aging Flower Child
 
Barefoot Bree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: On the highway - could be anywhere!
Posts: 9,312
Default

Thanks for that link, Trendkill; I hadn't seen it before. That's what I've been thinking and arguing (poorly) for a long time, as well as the Argument from Reasonable Nonbelief that page linked to - but I'd never seen either one laid out "professionally", if you will.
Barefoot Bree is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 04 May 2012, 05:32 PM   #361791 / #6
Politesse
Sapere aude
 
Politesse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chochenyo territory
Posts: 19,407
Default

On further thought: Are "topics of study" and "terms of religious identification" equivalent classes? And is it fair to select only scientific topics about which there is no significant debate? It's not as though there is consensus on everything in science, or within religion, no agreement on anything. We could, for instance, create a world map of "incest is wrong" or "certain texts are sacred" and have only a handful of outliers, whereas a map of "Out of Africa vs Multiregional Model" would give you quite a patchwork, with the biggest sections of OoA suspiciously in either Africa or countries that have had controlling interests there historically.
Politesse is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Old 04 May 2012, 06:00 PM   #361799 / #7
Worldtraveller
Will work for fun.
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: S. OR.
Posts: 3,771
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
Hmmm, yes. Most people speak the language of their place of birth as well. And wear clothing familiar to the culture of their birth. And make almost all moral and ethical decisions based on assumptions ingrained in them before they could walk.

This does not, in my opinion speak positively or negatively toward truth value, or superiority of one idea or behavior over another. It's just a fact of life that we are empathetic, imitative, cultural creatures, whose "self" never occurs in a vacuum.
Yes, well, I think we can all agree that there isn't a correct language to speak for everyone right? Can we also agree that there is no correct culture or clothing as well?

Therefore, if anyone were to make truth claims about any of those items, we could simply point to all the other examples to dispute that idea.
Quote:
This does not, in my opinion speak positively or negatively toward truth value, or superiority of one idea or behavior over another.
You are (probably intentionally, because I know you're smart enough to notice) conflating two separate things here. Truth value can be determined, at least to a significant effect, by evaluating the data. Superiority of one idea over another in terms of culture/clothing/whatever is another thing entirely. There are some ideas within every culture (I would expect) that many of other cultures would find 'inferior', and some of those are capable of objective, or at least rational, analysis, but many are simply a matter of taste.

I think your comments do more to support the idea than disagree with it.
Worldtraveller is offline   Reply With Quote top bottom
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Secular Café > Intellectual Debate and Discussion Forums > Religion

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Religion in politics = bad news for women DMB Religion 5 08 Mar 2012 03:35 AM
Shocking ads DMB Miscellaneous Discussions 47 31 May 2011 10:32 PM
Most shocking 'religious' YouTube videos?.... Silly Sausage Miscellaneous Discussions 116 16 Jul 2010 06:05 PM
What makes you cringe most about your birth religion? HinduWoman Religion 38 24 May 2009 11:41 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
 
Ocean Zero by vBSkins.com | Customised by Antechinus